Judge/Producer manipulation (conspiracy theories here)

[Fierce Critter]

I see a lot of comments going on about how people are sure the producers & judges are manipulating things behind the scenes to produce a particular outcome.

Suggestions such as favorite dancers are given dances suited to their styles (Melissa/pas des deux), non-favorites are painted in a bad light (Evan's ugly face), you name it.

I just finished re-watching season 1, and just finished watching season 2 through the selection of the final 20 (I never saw the 2nd season at all).

I don't know how many people remember or even saw this. But at one point, there is a very young guy in the audition process in Vegas, his name was Mikey. After a particularly unstellar performance, Nigel really rips Mikey a new one. Nigel tells him flat-out that he is the executive producer of this show and he will NOT have him screw up on the show and no matter how anyone else feels about him, he will override ALL of them and cut him if he feels he would ruin the show.

There were a couple other instances of Nigel saying something to this effect but none quite as memorable.

I think it's pretty clear that yes - the producers and judges do some work in directing who is going to do what and what is going to happen. I don't completely buy into all the conspiracy theories that float around, but this comment and the ones I can't remember did pretty much solidify for me that there is SOME basis of truth to those theories.

I don't think it's always successful. The judges have, all along, given Evan a particularly hard time and harsh criticism, yet I'm almost sure he's going to take the top spot.

I do feel the elimination of Natalie during the audition process was some sort of manipulation. She wasn't given a chance to dance for her life the way some less talented dancers were. I think either she was used for dramatic effect (oooh - they'll cut ANYONE!!! Auditioners beware!) or she was cut because she's not typically "pretty" like others they could decorate the stage with.

I don't agree that they are pushing Kayla into the top spot, I think she's a truly talented dancer and to NOT praise her would be dishonest.

About the possible true/not true story about Mia Michaels getting pissed over Jeannette getting cut and refusing to choreograph the contemporary routine that Stacy Tookie did, I could totally believe that. But I see a different spin on it - I tend to see Mia as more honest in her opinions & actions. I have wondered if anyone on the staff is as disgusted by Nigel and his carousing & off-color comments, and of everything, somehow I get the feeling Mia would find his actions the most offensive. I can see her getting pissed over the whole process of the show and stomping off in a hissy fit.

Well, that's just a few of my observations on just a few of the conspiracies floating around. I hope that bit from Nigel on Mikey I brought up sheds a little light on the thought process going on behind the scenes. It opened my eyes a little.

So You Think You Can Conspire?

[Harmony2000]

LOL the tag line of this thread should be "So You Think You Can Conspire". Awesome!!

Nigel. I'm just not sure how to take him. If truth is told. Sometimes he really makes me want to smack him with how lecherous he is, however, I have to remind myself of two things.

1: He isn't American and since he acts just like Simon on AI when it comes to the really pretty girls, I can't help but wonder if it's not a matter of different cultures? No excuse for that behavior....just wondering.

2: Without him and Simon the Producer there wouldn't be a SYTYCD and I will cut him a fair amount of slack for that.

Is he manipulating the dances? I want to say yes and I think yes whenever the outcome isn't what I want (lol). However, he is also all about the tour and selling tickets so why would he manipulate a less popular dancer into the win? Wouldn't that cost him tickets? If there is any manipulating going on, it's to generate a buzz. Remember, any buzz is better than no buzz at all. If people get angry at him for the manipulating, then they will support the dancers and purchase the tickets. Also, Nigel is smart. He's been doing this for a while now. He knows how to get voters to mostly do what he wants.

Expanding on that......Kayla has been the obvious front runner with the over the top praises and pretty much staying in her comfort zone all season. Nigel had to know that would cause many to not like her. So, I say she was never really his favorite and was just used to hide the favorite behind.

Mia: I can't stand her for the most part but I will give you this. She's one of those awful people who say awful and hurtful things to you while claiming "That's just me. I'm honest." So, I don't think she was being artful when she did what she did. I think she just reacted in her special brand of honesty that hurts others (this hurt being the dancers she didn't want to work with). I don't think she was manipulating anything, just throwing a tantrum.

And those are my observations, lol

[TopCatDC]

Here's my opinion:

Do the producer's manipulate? Yes. What is the outcome that they want? The best TV show.

I think we fans tend to look at everything through our own point of view. We love the show and love our favorite contestants. We vote-vote-vote and want them to win. And we assume that the producers have the same drive to push their favorites as we do. That's where we go wrong.

TV producers aren't like you and me. It's true - there are physical differences. Do an x-ray and you will find that the greed gland is much bigger. They make their money from selling the show to Fox and sharing the lucrative ad revenues. The more people they can get to watch the show, the more money they get to take home. So, their goal is to produce an entertaining and provocative show that gets a lot of buzz around town, around water coolers, and on the internet.

Let me repeat: it makes not one whit of difference to the producers who wins the show. They get paid the same. The only thing they care about is how many people watch the person win.

Since many SYTYCD fans are also American Idol fans, it is worth noting that AI is a completely different animal. AI producers have a built-in conflict of interest in the outcome of their show because:

• They share in contestant iTunes download revenue
• They represent the artists so they take a percentage of all concert and appearance fees for x number of years.
• They can sign a contestant to a recording contract and have a financial stake in their future music sales for x number of years.

SYTYCD has none of those contestant revenue streams. Once the tour is over, their relationship is essentially over. While the AI producers may care about who they are "stuck" with at the end of the show, that is not a concern for Nigel & Co.

So Nigel may have his favorites (like anyone else), but he is not going to alter the entertainment value of his money-making show for the petty agenda of pushing someone ahead. For example, he mentioned that Jeanette was a favorite. The Breast Cancer Dance clearly posed a threat to Jeanette - many of us at FORT noted that it was going to skew the voting to Ade and Melissa and cause other solid favorites (Brandon and Jeanette) to drop into the danger zone. But Nigel did nothing to prevent that number from going on. It helped the show and generated a lot of talk. He was obviously willing to let his favorites fall off the show because the BCD made for better TV, and anyway a surprise elimination generates more buzz, votes, and audience investment.

It's easy to make the mistake of thinking that our personal priorities (like having our favorite dancer win) are the same ones that are motivating everyone else. That's a very human assumption to make. But I believe the producers are far more concerned about increasing the value of their franchise, (both financially and creatively), than in pushing this or that person into the finale and throwing contestant X "under the bus".

Does that happen on American Idol? Most definitely. (Like when the producers selected a song from the animated film Happy Feet for Syeesha Mercado because, just maybe, they wanted to guarantee a David Cook vs. David Archuleta finale in Season 7.) But there is simply no motivation for such shenanigans on SYTYCD. And as Law & Order fans know, if you want to convict of a crime, you have to show motive.

I move to dismiss.

[pcofpc]

I have only been a reader of this site for two years. I really need to say that TopCatDC just posted an article that is so definetly right on the button. It's nice to see someone post comments who really knows what is going on with the shows inner workings. Congratulations TopCatDC for an article very well written.

Case Closed

[CrossingGuard]

But what Nigel can't let go of is his personal opinions. Every season, it seems that he has always wanted a certain type of dancer to win. He wanted a girl in S3 after having 2 boys. He wanted an untrained HH dancer in S4 after never having any untrained HH dancers in the Top4, ever.

(The "untrained" part of that is a load of BS though, because Joshua was trained a little bit--he said he took some ballet classes. And Twitch had to take a few classes before he tried out again in S4 so that he could expand his skills. For a good majority of these dancers, you have to do some training before you go on the show, especially with the HH dancers. Remember Gev? He tried out in S2, and didn't make it. Then he kept taking classes, and eventually got on S4. Maybe by "untrained," Nigel meant that these dancers didn't take a variety of dance classes in different styles their whole life, which was probably true. But Nigel made it seem as if they were strictly HH.)

Anyway, and in S5, he wanted another female to win. But this time, not a contemporary dancer, since he already had that in the form of Sabra. He wanted Janette to win, a spicy salsa dancer.

Nigel likes variety. He also likes storylines. That's why he pushed the whole "untrained" thing down our throats at the end of the season. And that's why he supposedly had Brandon/Janette dance a Mia piece this week to have Brandon dance with the lady that hated him.

And not to mention that viewers like storylines. Well, most of us do, because I don't like storylines on this show (it's a bit manipulative). People would have loved to see Brandon dance with Mia this week. So storylines bring in viewers.

As for the BCD and Janette, he probably got overconfident. He probably thought that Janette would have enough votes to make it through the next week, even with mediocre dances. Remember what Nigel said in the beginning of the Top6 show, about how America is voting on the choreography instead of the dancers? That was obviously about Janette.

Expanding on that......Kayla has been the obvious front runner with the over the top praises and pretty much staying in her comfort zone all season. Nigel had to know that would cause many to not like her. So, I say she was never really his favorite and was just used to hide the favorite behind.

That was exactly what I was thinking! Ever since the Janette elimination. I didn't want to say anything 'cause I felt that people would jump on me.

Nigel's not stupid. He reads the internet (he has a twitter, so yeah ). He knew the backlash Will received last year after he was pimped by the judges last year. So why would he do that again to one of his supposedly favorite dancers? People think he's throwing Evan under the bus, but he's throwing Kayla under the bus moreso than Evan. People feel bad for Evan when he gets negative comments, but people hate Kayla when she gets good ones.

On the other hand, there was Janette, who he also complimented a lot. But he was never over the top with her (except that one time where the judges gave Brandon and her a standing O). Because he was never OTT with her, no one seemed to notice. The attention was all towards Kayla, and she was the one that suffered the most. But Janette never really received any backlash, because the pimping was pretty unnoticeable.

[SpringMaiden27]

And yet ,time & time again folks continue to let the judges manipulate them. You'd think the audience would learn by now.

[Harmony2000]

Ah but the majority of the audience does not go to the forums and may not be aware of the manipulation. I'm not saying they aren't wise or whatever, I'm just saying they may be a bit naive and not see what we all see because we discuss it so much. It wasn't until I started frequenting forums on a regular basis that I realized just how phony AI is. That opened my eyes to all the other competition shows.

I don't think Nigel cares from the show point of view who wins, obviously he is in this for the money and wants the most popular dancer to win. But I think he just cannot put his own personal agenda aside and can't resist trying to manipulate things to his liking. He has admitted he is a major control freak and I think the manipulation is stemming from that. His need to control everything and have the outcome he wants in the way he wants it. He wants America to go along with him and follow his agenda and make his chosen one the most popular dancer. I don't think it's a monetary motivation though.

The audience is a very difficult animal to predict. It's fickle and if Nigel is playing some game of hiding his real chosen ones behind those he appears to be propping up? That will blow up in his face like it did when Janette got sent home. What makes it hard to predict is that you have a vast majority of viewers who are not on the Internet and are not letting their opinions be heard. You also have those who vote by what they see and how it touches them and it has nothing to do with personal favorites.

Is this the first season where these are no rumors of romances between the couples? Is that why nobody has jumped out as a favorite? It sure has helped others in the past get to the final 4.

[queenb]

1: He isn't American and since he acts just like Simon on AI when it comes to the really pretty girls, I can't help but wonder if it's not a matter of different cultures? No excuse for that behavior....just wondering.

The remarks that get everyone in an uproar do seem to me to be the type commonly seen on European advertisements and TV shows-- Americans are notable for being more prudish than other countries!

Anyway, I don't get the whole conspiracy thing, or believe that mia refused to choreograph--if she had done so as a protest i'm sure she would have made a public announcement about it. i think the producers just wanted to give stacey a turn, and mia will choreograph a dance, maybe even two, on the bigger deal finale show.
Yes the judges rave on about their favorites, but I really think that if they REALLY don't want a contestant on, the votes would be somehow be generated to remove that person, and vice versa.

Anyway, it's all entertainment, so whatever tweaking they want to do is fine by me--I like the dancers that I choose, and ignore the gushing and usually FF through a lot of it by the end of the season anyway.

[Taddy77]

I really have to wonder though, why oh why were Evan and Melissa given a Broadway number(which can be great like Brandon and Janette's Bank robber one!) and then a QUICKSTEP!!!!!! I mean Of course Melissa was going to go home that night, Evan only stayed because of the huge fan base he has that doesn't CARE what he dances.

When Melissa and Ade danced the BCD I have a feeling that Nigel knew that it would save them and he in some weird way thought that it would have voters send Evan and Jeanine home, even though they both danced well that night... it's his own little warped exec producer mind after all! And I like Nigel!!!!

But when Brandon and Kayla got first a Contemporary routine then a fast disco which we know Brandon can do well, I was like...well they can walk into the finals!!!!(which they DO deserve don't get me wrong) but it was almost as if Nigel made it extra so by the numbers that they got, kwim????

I really really didn't think that Nigel or anyof the other higher ups interfered with the top 20 until this year actually. I mean its completely obvious that each judge gets of their own faves in the top 20, but after that I always thought(and maybe naively so) that the dance selection was so random after that. But now I'm not so sure. I mean we dont' know that there isn't like 1-2 dances in that hat they draw out of, that is WHEN they show them drawing the dances. We haven't actually SEEN them drawing the dances out of a hat at random much this year have we???


Although bottom line, it is Nigel's show he makes money off of it, he needs to have huge ratings and he needs to sell out the tour. So do I blame him for maybe messing with the outcome a wee bit, no. Because, honestly he hsa done SO much for dance in the US AND in Canada for having SYTYCD come up here. The 2nd season starts right away and I can't wait! (and IMO Stacey Tookie is awesome, you guys in the US missed out on the awesome routines by her on our 1st season here!)
Things that make you go hmmmm.........

[Gala62]

First Taddy, I do agree with you about the contribution that Nigel has made to dance/American tv. It is simply a joy to watch these dancers grow and perform beautiful routines week after week.

OF COURSE Nigel manipulates to some extent. Melissa with a pas de deux? Does anyone really believe that to be random? I don't actually care, but I wish they would get rid of the pulling out of a hat BS.

IMHO, Nigel would probably prefer the judges to have total control over the outcome, but that wouldn't be any fun for us, the viewing audience, so his hands are tied. The judges have a few weeks to weed out the dross (assuming they fall into the B3!) and then all bets are off.
Only their comments and yes, the choreography can influence us.

I think that Nigel wanted a female winner this season, but Brandon is so strong.... and I'm not sure if Kayla or Jeanine have enough votes individually to take him down.