Did these kids ever hear of financial aid? - Page 6

PWS · 06-27-2005, 07:02 PM

Re the illegal immigrants...don't think they get college aid. What we do do tho usually is let the little kids go to school even if their parents are illegal. Way better from society's perspective to have those teens in high school than sitting on streets getting bored, way better to have them educated than not. Especially since some of them are actually citizens, having been born here, or become citizens by marrying one.
At least that's my opinion....

I know how hard it is for even a legally here alien to get college financial aid---one young woman I know from Turkey came here on a partial scholarship, acheivement based, and her parents poured all their savings into her first year "out of state" tuition. She did terrifically her first year in a hard science major. After that the parents had nothing and because she was not a citizen, or even trying to be, she wasn't eligible for almost all need based or acheivement based awards, and was still out of state. Because she was so deserving, and so nice, a bunch of admin people really scrounged for money for her and in the end she got to stay, but it was kind of a miracle, certainly nothing routine.
Actually I also think it's good if people come study here and go home...leads to better foreign relations if people -- future leaders of their countries--know what we are really like (well, usually!). And of course we often get some great immigrants that way.

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Justafan1 · 06-27-2005, 10:17 PM

[quote=PWS]Re the illegal immigrants...don't think they get college aid. What we do do tho usually is let the little kids go to school even if their parents are illegal. QUOTE]

I will never understand this. NEVER, Their parents broke the law of the United States. That's why they are ILLEGAL.

Oh, yeah, it is politically incorrect to mention this...I forgot.

bebewood · 06-28-2005, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muduh

It does sound like they have their priorities a little confused, doesn't it? We're probably educating some of them so that they can go back home and help their countries to show us up in manufacturing jobs and inventing other things that we will have to pay big money to obtain.

residents live in the US. youre talking about international students. international students get no financial aide from the government, they have to pay for their US education themselves

bebewood · 06-28-2005, 02:51 AM

[quote=Justafan1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWS

Re the illegal immigrants...don't think they get college aid. What we do do tho usually is let the little kids go to school even if their parents are illegal. QUOTE]

I will never understand this. NEVER, Their parents broke the law of the United States. That's why they are ILLEGAL.

Oh, yeah, it is politically incorrect to mention this...I forgot.

have you ever stopped and wondered WHY they broke the law? my parents came here during a time of terrorism in my home country, and we were lucky enough to get residency, but not everyone gets residency. Some people are living under terrible situation, and come to the US to try to escape it.

Mexico for example, is a horrifying place to live with all the crime that goes on there and the police do nothing about it. In Cuba, people are under the rule of an evil dictator.. is it so wrong for these people to try to escape and find a better life for their children?

anyway its not the KIDS fault that their parents decided to "break the law" so why should the kids suffer?

gracie727 · 06-28-2005, 03:50 AM

Many people who seem like they are illegal (because they don't speak English) are actually citizens of the USA. I think that is kind of interesting. In the last job I had, we had several people who spoke almost no English but they had been able to take the citizenship test in their native language and were US citizens. Some had been here for over 20 years!

Also, over the years, the US has offered amnesty for people from certain countries and they are legal residents.

PWS · 06-28-2005, 05:48 AM

[quote=Justafan1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWS

Re the illegal immigrants...don't think they get college aid. What we do do tho usually is let the little kids go to school even if their parents are illegal. QUOTE]

I will never understand this. NEVER, Their parents broke the law of the United States. That's why they are ILLEGAL.

Oh, yeah, it is politically incorrect to mention this...I forgot.

Leaving aside ethical issues like punishing the kids for their parents' sins I think there is a very practical reason communities would rather have the kids in school than out. The kids are there...and 9/11 or not we don't seem to be deporting the parents (lots of reasons given for that, like that some powerful business people/farmers really like the cheap labor they can get from people too frightened of deportation to complain about working conditions...and the illegals still find it better $$wise than at home)... so would you rather have them in your town illiterate and out of school, on the streets, getting in trouble...or would you rather have them in school becoming assimilated to US ways and acquiring some skills? Very practical politicians and quite conservative voters in many communities have decided they'd rather have them in school.
Clearly would be neater if only legal immigrants were here, but with the length and geography of our borders and desirability of life here that ain't happening, so we have to deal with the realities. What can I say, life is messy.
I do think we've wandered a bit from the basic financial aid question that started the thread tho.

speedbump · 06-28-2005, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWS

I do think we've wandered a bit from the basic financial aid question that started the thread tho.

That was me...sorry about that. That topic has been a hot headliner in my state for the last year. There is a bill trying to get passed for in-state tuition and financial aid that would be footed by the taxpayers. I wasn't trying to debate the merits of illegal college tuition but instead point out that while legislation is sought to be passed to aid illegal immigrants, there are already millions of U.S. citizens that academically qualify and receive nothing.

To get back on topic, the answer to the very first post: if the students had received fiancial aid, we wouldn't have had a show.

Muduh · 06-28-2005, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bebewood

residents live in the US. youre talking about international students. international students get no financial aide from the government, they have to pay for their US education themselves

No, I was talking about illegal immigrants. I was replying to a post by Speedbump. If they are illegal, I assume that they plan to eventually return to their own country. AFTER they get educated, of course.

PWS · 06-28-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muduh

No, I was talking about illegal immigrants. I was replying to a post by Speedbump. If they are illegal, I assume that they plan to eventually return to their own country. AFTER they get educated, of course.

I don't know, Muduh--my guess is they hope to stay. They've usually come with their families and grown up here...would guess a lot don't have much connection with the homeland...may not even speak the parents' language well at all. Of course if someone comes specifically to go to college then that's different...but that's not that hard to do legally as long as they can afford it--and start the paperwork early--by all accounts very sluggish system since 9/11. I know engineering and science grad schools have lost a lot of international students from Asia to Europe these last couple of years since the paperwork has become so difficult, and the system response so slow.
Question for speedbump--would the in state tuition rules and financial aid rules not be the same for the citizens and legal immigrants as for the illegals? Surely they aren't proposing to give aid to rich illegals and deny it to poor Americans? That's a serious question as I haven't heard about this proposal before. Thanks.
And I realize I am continuing to contribute to the hijacking of this thread!

emeraldsong · 06-28-2005, 05:17 PM

Okay, I did some quick research. The average tution at Harvard/Yale/Stanford seems to be about $31,000. This does not include room/board/books and many other various fees associated with college life.

Now about loans -- all are need base but there is a limit to how much you can borrow. Take the stafford loan for instance: the first year of undergraduate you are only allowed (as a dependent) to take out $2,625, 2nd yr -- $3,500 and 3rd/4th yrs -- $5,500. For independent students the amount is about twice that given for the dependent.

Even if these students could get the maximum loan it would by no means even begin to cover the cost of going to one of these schools. Plus you must remember that you can't get these loans (or pell grants or National Direct Student Loans) unless the FAF says that you NEED it.

As far as all of those nice trustee scholarships go -- colleges give those out to people with high needs and high skill. My guess is that these young people are top kids, but not the absolute top (after all consider where some of them are from -- Buhl, Idaho?)

06-27-2005, 07:02 PM	#51
PWS FORT Fogey Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8,297	Re the illegal immigrants...don't think they get college aid. What we do do tho usually is let the little kids go to school even if their parents are illegal. Way better from society's perspective to have those teens in high school than sitting on streets getting bored, way better to have them educated than not. Especially since some of them are actually citizens, having been born here, or become citizens by marrying one. At least that's my opinion.... I know how hard it is for even a legally here alien to get college financial aid---one young woman I know from Turkey came here on a partial scholarship, acheivement based, and her parents poured all their savings into her first year "out of state" tuition. She did terrifically her first year in a hard science major. After that the parents had nothing and because she was not a citizen, or even trying to be, she wasn't eligible for almost all need based or acheivement based awards, and was still out of state. Because she was so deserving, and so nice, a bunch of admin people really scrounged for money for her and in the end she got to stay, but it was kind of a miracle, certainly nothing routine. Actually I also think it's good if people come study here and go home...leads to better foreign relations if people -- future leaders of their countries--know what we are really like (well, usually!). And of course we often get some great immigrants that way.

06-27-2005, 10:17 PM	#52
Justafan1 FORT Fogey Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,914	[quote=PWS]Re the illegal immigrants...don't think they get college aid. What we do do tho usually is let the little kids go to school even if their parents are illegal. QUOTE] I will never understand this. NEVER, Their parents broke the law of the United States. That's why they are ILLEGAL. Oh, yeah, it is politically incorrect to mention this...I forgot.

06-28-2005, 03:50 AM	#55
gracie727 FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,202	Many people who seem like they are illegal (because they don't speak English) are actually citizens of the USA. I think that is kind of interesting. In the last job I had, we had several people who spoke almost no English but they had been able to take the citizenship test in their native language and were US citizens. Some had been here for over 20 years! Also, over the years, the US has offered amnesty for people from certain countries and they are legal residents.

06-28-2005, 05:17 PM	#60
emeraldsong FORT Regular Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 103	Okay, I did some quick research. The average tution at Harvard/Yale/Stanford seems to be about $31,000. This does not include room/board/books and many other various fees associated with college life. Now about loans -- all are need base but there is a limit to how much you can borrow. Take the stafford loan for instance: the first year of undergraduate you are only allowed (as a dependent) to take out $2,625, 2nd yr -- $3,500 and 3rd/4th yrs -- $5,500. For independent students the amount is about twice that given for the dependent. Even if these students could get the maximum loan it would by no means even begin to cover the cost of going to one of these schools. Plus you must remember that you can't get these loans (or pell grants or National Direct Student Loans) unless the FAF says that you NEED it. As far as all of those nice trustee scholarships go -- colleges give those out to people with high needs and high skill. My guess is that these young people are top kids, but not the absolute top (after all consider where some of them are from -- Buhl, Idaho?)