Did these kids ever hear of financial aid? - Page 5

PWS · 06-22-2005, 01:35 PM

Even in the olden olden days there were a few scholarships, but yes, most people paid for college and mostly the well off went... and met the children of other well off people, married well, and were well off themselves and sent their kids to college and on and on. The big change was after World War II when the vets, who included many people from poor families, got their college paid for in large part by the government. Then, psychologically, college became not just for the rich, and a much larger segment of the country started going to college.
Back in the day when only the well off went to college a high school degree was all you needed for a good job. Now most jobs do require higher level skills, but even the ones that really don't are asking for a college degree, because these days if you don't have one it says something about you, your ambition, ability, etc. And because of affirmative action rules that have forced employers to spell out what they want in an employee much more clearly, and then not deviate from that, the occasional non-BA who would be great in the job doesn't get considered for legal reasons.

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Lah · 06-22-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Glitter, it's really not a necessity. You can easily survive on a low income. If you want to be rich, then yes it might be a necessity, but no one NEEDS to go to college. Yes the value of a college degree has dropped, but even people who never graduated highschool are able to get jobs and fend for themselves.

It seems you and most of us here disagree on what qualifies as a necessity. Personally, I agree with Glitternerfball that a college degree is a necessity for most people nowadays. No, perhaps not in order to survive (as in, having enough to eat, a place to sleep - the objectives of animals), but to at least have a fighting chance at attaining the "good life" - as in, living well, being happy, realizing our maximum potential as human beings. So it's not even a question of even being rich.

Quote:

Justafan, I understand college is expensive, but you shouldnt be expecting the government to pay for your kid's education. If your kid really desperately wants to go he can always join the army or navy or something and get his education fully paid. We are lucky that programs like this even exist.

The army and the navy offer definite advantages. Unfortunately, there are also the downsides of missing out on typical college experiences, being psychologically scarred by war...getting killed in combat.

That aside, I'm wondering as to why you find government paying for scholarships and aid and so on so objectionable. Surely there aren't many worthier places for funding than in education? Not only does investment in post-secondary education obviously benefit those in need of it, but in the long run, it also benefits the whole of the nation in terms of creating more human capital and, therefore, more wealth. How is that a bad thing? As citizens, why shouldn't we feel entitled to it?

Would you rather the government invests more of its money in military spending? In sundry pork-barrel projects?

Quote:

lucy, yes i have. my parents live on it. Neither of my parents graduated highschool. My mom had a business but it went to [mod edit] so now instead of getting money from it, we are losing money trying to fix it. My dad started on minimum wage and now he makes more not because he has a degree but because he has been working in the same place for years. Regardless we still have a nice apartment and we live comfortably. We never go without food, if i need new clothes we can afford to buy it. Of course I dont buy the same things other kids do, but i'm fine with shirts under 10 bucks.

And yet, your parents (presumably) still supports your going to USC. A private university. That costs $30,000 a year or so.
Hmm...I wonder why? I mean, you could just as easily survive on a minimum wage job at MacDonald's, couldn't you?

Miss Filangi · 06-22-2005, 03:22 PM

Please try to stay on topic and keep personal attacks out of the discussion. This thread is getting a bit too heated and may result in posts being edited or deleted. Opinions about another's education or financial situation have a tendency to come off as personal attacks.

Lucy van Pelt · 06-22-2005, 07:16 PM

Miss F, I'm confused on how this has gone "off topic". It's still a discussion about financial aid and the ease/difficulty of obtaining same, isn't it? Or is it that discussing financial aid shouldn't be part of a board about a reality show? Can you explain?

I DO understand about not getting too personal, but other than that, I just don't get how it's off topic. Please educate me! (pun intended)

bebewood · 06-23-2005, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimjack

I'm a bit confused.

Here you seem to imply that you go to college

But here you state that college is not necessary:

I'm confused as to why you bother to go. Also, how can you afford it with your situation?

Very respectfully I wonder what your parents opinion of college would be.

I know what mine is. I threw away my chance at an early college education by partying and not taking it seriously. The only thing that has given me a leg up is my knack for computers. Now, I'm 36 and have a fledgling family of my own. I've capped out what I can earn in my company without going to management but I am repeatedly passed up because of my lack of education. At this point in my life it would be useless to go to an "Ivy-League" but it seems essential to at least obtain a college degree.

P.S. I don't want to be rich, but I never want to be dependant on my children if I make it to my waning years.

i can afford it because the school and the government are paying for it, and i am very greatful for that. I'm also taking out loans each year which I intent to pay back on my own. My parents have told me that if i didnt want to go to college, i wouldnt have to, college is not for everyone. i could always become something else, like a cosmotologist, which is one of the things my mom is, so she understands that not everyone needs to go to college. I bother to go because i love it. If the government didnt give out financial aide i would have gone to FSU on the two scholarships i recieved (which were not need based) but because of the government chose this one, where i can get better connections as well as work experience while I am at school.

bebewood · 06-24-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lah

It seems you and most of us here disagree on what qualifies as a necessity. Personally, I agree with Glitternerfball that a college degree is a necessity for most people nowadays. No, perhaps not in order to survive (as in, having enough to eat, a place to sleep - the objectives of animals), but to at least have a fighting chance at attaining the "good life" - as in, living well, being happy, realizing our maximum potential as human beings. So it's not even a question of even being rich.

The army and the navy offer definite advantages. Unfortunately, there are also the downsides of missing out on typical college experiences, being psychologically scarred by war...getting killed in combat.

That aside, I'm wondering as to why you find government paying for scholarships and aid and so on so objectionable. Surely there aren't many worthier places for funding than in education? Not only does investment in post-secondary education obviously benefit those in need of it, but in the long run, it also benefits the whole of the nation in terms of creating more human capital and, therefore, more wealth. How is that a bad thing? As citizens, why shouldn't we feel entitled to it?

Would you rather the government invests more of its money in military spending? In sundry pork-barrel projects?

And yet, your parents (presumably) still supports your going to USC. A private university. That costs $30,000 a year or so.
Hmm...I wonder why? I mean, you could just as easily survive on a minimum wage job at MacDonald's, couldn't you?

they may be lying, but i actually inquired about the navy and they said that NO ONE is FORCED to go into war. People who do go, go voluntarily and they get paid extra, but it is not a requirement. And speaking of college experience, a lot of kids miss out anyway either by commuting or by going to a community college first.
I dont think the government paying for kids education is objectionable, i think its great, but i also think its ridiculous for people to moan and complain when it doesn't go their way. We are lucky to even HAVE a system like this.

yeah i could survive working in mcdonalds, but im a spoiled selfish brat who hates those kinds of jobs and wants to do something else. Like i said, if it wasnt for the government i still would have gone to college. I would have gone to a state school first, and then transfered to a better school in a better city paying for it with whatever it takes, even if it meant stripping or something, which is what a lot of girls do who want easy money. Yes I'm a brat, at least I'll admit it. I actually wanted to go to NYU but I only got 25000 in aide, most of which was loans, so there is no way i could afford it (so see, even "lazy poor people cant go to their dream school with government aide). So i decided to take the money from USC and hopefully transfar to NYU in the future, but now i really love USC and there is no way I'm transferring out.

Lah · 06-27-2005, 01:58 PM

Bebewood, you misunderstood me. I was in no way implying you're a spoiled brat. Good on you for being so adamant about going to college, and USC is a great school. I guess where we fundamentally disagree is that while you think a college education is a privilege, I think it should be a right for all qualified citizens, a right which the government of any liberal nation should be bound to foster and protect. That's all.

Anyway...

speedbump · 06-27-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lah

I think it should be a right for all qualified citizens, a right which the government of any liberal nation should be bound to foster and protect. That's all.

Are you trying to say that you think the government should fund every person who goes to college an education? I took the sentence above in a different context than what I think you were trying to say which is why I asked.

Based on your statement above, the government does afford the right for qualified citizens to attend college...they just don't pay for it. Most states also afford the right of college and financial aid to illegal immigrants at the tax payers expense. Which kind of sucks considering qualified citizens don't even get that kind of preferential treatment.

Muduh · 06-27-2005, 03:56 PM

It does sound like they have their priorities a little confused, doesn't it? We're probably educating some of them so that they can go back home and help their countries to show us up in manufacturing jobs and inventing other things that we will have to pay big money to obtain.

Lah · 06-27-2005, 04:11 PM

Actually, yes. My ideal is a system of cost-free higher education as practised by Germany. However, when I mentioned right, I was keeping my semantics pretty loose; it need not be taken to mean government subsidizing 100% of college education, but merely that as part of the social contract, citizens should feel entitled to receiving financial assistance from the government if they should qualify for it, without feeling like Oliver Twist falling to his knees in gratitude for every damnable bowl of gruel. Yes, of course, by strict definition the U.S. already provides its citizens the right to education as part of our overall human rights, but I was using the word to differentiate necessity from privilege.

As for showering illegal immigrants with financial aid...hmm. I don't believe I've heard that one before, but what do I know?

I'm already way off-topic, so this'll have to do as a response.

06-22-2005, 03:22 PM	#43
Miss Filangi Evil Slash Crazy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Looking for a place to happen Age: 35 Posts: 11,376	Please try to stay on topic and keep personal attacks out of the discussion. This thread is getting a bit too heated and may result in posts being edited or deleted. Opinions about another's education or financial situation have a tendency to come off as personal attacks. __________________ If you go through a lot of hammers each month, I don't think it necessarily means you're a hard worker. It may just mean that you have a lot to learn about proper hammer maintenance.

06-22-2005, 07:16 PM	#44
Lucy van Pelt Crabby by nature Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,686	Miss F, I'm confused on how this has gone "off topic". It's still a discussion about financial aid and the ease/difficulty of obtaining same, isn't it? Or is it that discussing financial aid shouldn't be part of a board about a reality show? Can you explain? I DO understand about not getting too personal, but other than that, I just don't get how it's off topic. Please educate me! (pun intended) __________________

06-22-2005, 01:35 PM	#41
PWS FORT Fogey Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 8,297	Even in the olden olden days there were a few scholarships, but yes, most people paid for college and mostly the well off went... and met the children of other well off people, married well, and were well off themselves and sent their kids to college and on and on. The big change was after World War II when the vets, who included many people from poor families, got their college paid for in large part by the government. Then, psychologically, college became not just for the rich, and a much larger segment of the country started going to college. Back in the day when only the well off went to college a high school degree was all you needed for a good job. Now most jobs do require higher level skills, but even the ones that really don't are asking for a college degree, because these days if you don't have one it says something about you, your ambition, ability, etc. And because of affirmative action rules that have forced employers to spell out what they want in an employee much more clearly, and then not deviate from that, the occasional non-BA who would be great in the job doesn't get considered for legal reasons.

06-27-2005, 01:58 PM	#47
Lah FORT Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: a rock formation Posts: 46	Bebewood, you misunderstood me. I was in no way implying you're a spoiled brat. Good on you for being so adamant about going to college, and USC is a great school. I guess where we fundamentally disagree is that while you think a college education is a privilege, I think it should be a right for all qualified citizens, a right which the government of any liberal nation should be bound to foster and protect. That's all. Anyway...

06-27-2005, 03:56 PM	#49
Muduh FORT Fogey Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 7,303	It does sound like they have their priorities a little confused, doesn't it? We're probably educating some of them so that they can go back home and help their countries to show us up in manufacturing jobs and inventing other things that we will have to pay big money to obtain.

06-27-2005, 04:11 PM	#50
Lah FORT Newbie Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: a rock formation Posts: 46	Actually, yes. My ideal is a system of cost-free higher education as practised by Germany. However, when I mentioned right, I was keeping my semantics pretty loose; it need not be taken to mean government subsidizing 100% of college education, but merely that as part of the social contract, citizens should feel entitled to receiving financial assistance from the government if they should qualify for it, without feeling like Oliver Twist falling to his knees in gratitude for every damnable bowl of gruel. Yes, of course, by strict definition the U.S. already provides its citizens the right to education as part of our overall human rights, but I was using the word to differentiate necessity from privilege. As for showering illegal immigrants with financial aid...hmm. I don't believe I've heard that one before, but what do I know? I'm already way off-topic, so this'll have to do as a response.