Did these kids ever hear of financial aid?

[Iamsohooked]

Just chiming in on the subject of financial aid, I have two sons in college now. I am married to a school teacher and I have been a stay-at-home mom for 20 years, we have 5 children and are fortunate enough to own our home and our cars and have no debt. This has all come with much sacrifice and struggle such as pay with cash and don't buy what you don't need. We have not sacrificed fun or vacations but took trips within our means.
With this said because we don't have a mortgage, a mountain of credit card debt or car loans - we have money in the bank (thanks to my husbands being thrifty in his teens) we qualify for NOTHING! No money - the government basically has said take all your hard earned retirement money and use it to educate your kids and then keep working because your retirement is now gone. Now, I don't expect the government to pay for my kids' education but it would have been nice if they said we'll give you a loan without interest while the kids are in school so you can keep your money in the bank to earn interest and you can then pay off the loan when they graduate and keep the interest and maybe be somewhat ahead of the game. But no, no help for the lower middle class who did the right things with their money and now are paying for it.
So from this standpoint - go buy two new cars on payments, buy a big house with a huge mortgage and run up your credit cards - then you can qualify for financial aid for your child. If you do things the right way-you get screwed!

[bebewood]

I agree with the person who started this thread. If these kids really were geniuses, they would get a Presidential scholarship from their school as well as other outside scholarships.
So I'm wondering why these kids are freaking out so much.

to Positive- people were complaining in another thread that our American education system is subpar, and this is true for highschool and grade school but it is also true for several colleges. A kid would probably get a better education at an elite institution rather than at their state school (unless if they live in California or something which has a great UC system). I'm from Florida, and several of my friends went to Florida schools because of the money issue. I went away to USC, and I can tell you that I'm definately being challanged a lot more than my friends in their 2000 bucks a year public schools. My friends who were of similar intelligence to me are flying by their classes and not doing any work, not doing any readings, and still managing As, while I have to study my butt off to get an A- on a midterm here, and I'm not even taking the most difficult class, so it makes me wonder exactly how dumbed down the classes they are taking must be.

And Mariner, you have a point, but keep in mind that these kids were selected as some of the best in America. Surely they could manage a Presidential scholarship, no problem.Now if any of them are not US citizens, that might be different...but wouldnt that also make them unqualified for this scholarship? I don't know.

I know kids from my school who are not at the level that these "scholars" are but were able to collect enough money from scholarships to go to 40000 bucks a year schools.

We are not talking about every day Joe Shmoes, these kids are supposed to be exceptional.

and aname- why earn a high GPA and high sat scores in hs if youre gonna go to a CC? that would feel like a waste. Not only that, but a major ego burst. A CC is like starting over. If youre going to go to a CC you could have just slacked off in hs, got an 800 on your sats, not do anything special, and you're in. I hate the CC system. I feel it's like cheating. Like those Tech schools. "earn your degree in 2 years." What a waste.

Scenario- some kid works his ass off in grades k-12 and goes straight to harvard
other kid slacks off, goes to a CC, then finally starts working, and then goes to Harvard Junior and Senior year.

That just doesn't seem fair at all.

[PWS]

College tuitions are definately not made for the middle class and they do what they can to not give you money. But there are so many factors. As the first in my family my mother wanted me to go to a state school, but I figured that the more money the school has the more they can give me. I went to an Ivy league school and am in the same amount of debt as my friends from state schools thanks to scholarships. HOWEVER, I do have more debt than I should because they continually counted in my father's income, even though it was explained multiple times that he is a dead-beat dad and didn't even pay child support, and there was documentation backing it up. Every single friggin year I had to do the financial paper work, file the forms with the state that proved my parents wouldn't pay and have myself declared financially independent.

For these kids, if they are true middle class then they don't have a chance of life w/out debt. While I feel the education is similiar in 'good school' and 'state school' I will tell you that in the business world, and as a woman in NYC, I have had many people say they called me in because of the school I went to, and the only way I got my apartment was because I was the only Ivy Leaguer, which the Landlord pointed out, and he said that is why he was offereing me the apartment, because he knew I would always be employed because of my school. The pedigree still matters in some businesses. But if you're going into a profession such as healthcare, real estate, or teaching - it doesn't matter if you graduate online if you can do the work.

Glitternerfball hit it right on the head. There are assumptions made about Ivy grads that last a lifetime...if you tell someone you went to Harvard they assume you are smart. And that at least at some point in your life you were willing to work hard (to get in). As to whether you know something about the field you are working in... for that you may start on a par with a State U. grad, unless it is an academic field...that is, unless you want to apply to grad school... then again the Ivy has an advantage unless your State U. happens to have a particularly strong department in that field. Ditto for social occasions...in the mating dance it provides an instant hint about your intellectual gene pool. The State U. grad can make up all that ground, but has to make it up.
The other big advantage of an Ivy is your classmates. A much higher percentage of them will be smart, striving, competitive gogetters who will also succeed in life, and who will encourage you to do that, rather than to join a frat and get falling down drunk. Not to say every State U student is a frat boy, or that there is no getting completely sloshed at Harvard, just the ratio, and the social pressure, differs. Which is one reason most of the State U's now have honors colleges within them, so the really good students can find each other and encourage each other-- a sort of mini-Ivy within the State U.
You, as a smart student, can absolutely get a great education at a State U., but you have to be willing to work for it and look for it, seek out the profs. etc. and not get distracted by wanting to fit in. At the Ivy everyone is a smart student, so you already fit in...life is much easier. And, for girls, I regret to say, since there is still the perception out there that the girl shouldn't be smarter than the boy, the dating scene is much much better. One (older) woman I know who went to an Ivy described her first week there as like taking off a mental girdle-- that for once she didn't have to watch every word she said, and set her vocubulary to her date's level. I'm sure there's some similar effect for guys being around their peers... in a school of eggheads it's ok to be one.
And speaking of striving...and Jeremy...a huge huge percentage of the students at places like Harvard are like Jeremy...children of, or themselves, recent immigrants from Asia, the former Soviet Union, etc. Yes, it helps to be a "legacy", at every school, but most of the students are not.
OK wandering now...my point is, the kids are not nuts to want an Ivy, or a "Little Ivy"---the equally elite colleges for those who like smaller schools, but if not that then a good State U. honors college. While going to community college saves money you really can't transfer to Harvard from one...most transfers go to the State U., but the honors college programs are primarily for entering frosh, not for transfers....so not the best plan unless you are a very self determined person. Again, not that you can't get a good education going that route, but you have to work much harder to find it.
One final subpoint--- a lot of what I said applies particularly in the Eaat...on the West Coast, especially in California where there is an exceptionally strong state system, going to Berkeley brings all the perks of going to Yale.

[Mariner]

And Mariner, you have a point, but keep in mind that these kids were selected as some of the best in America. Surely they could manage a Presidential scholarship, no problem.Now if any of them are not US citizens, that might be different...but wouldnt that also make them unqualified for this scholarship? I don't know.

Bebewood, are you talking about this program?: http://www.nationalservice.org/schol...utprogram.html

It looks to me like it's limited to $1000 per year

Particular schools have different scholarship programs that can get you a lot of money if you are lucky. I went to school a long, long time ago. Even then my $1500 National Merit Scholarship only put a small dent in what I had to borrow.

[bebewood]

Bebewood, are you talking about this program?: http://www.nationalservice.org/schol...utprogram.html

It looks to me like it's limited to $1000 per year

Particular schools have different scholarship programs that can get you a lot of money if you are lucky. I went to school a long, long time ago. Even then my $1500 National Merit Scholarship only put a small dent in what I had to borrow.

No

Schools have their own scholarships that they give out to their top applicants. It's called the Presidential scholarship at some schools, at my school it's called the Trustee's scholarship I think it covers 100 percent tuition, and I'm sure if these kids truly are brilliant, then they can not only get it but maintain it with no problem. As for housing and books, there are other scholarships that they can apply to . Keep in mind that these are not "average" kids.

Then the schools also have smaller scholarships. Trust me, if they trully are smart and hard working and leaders, they can collect enough scholarships to go to any school they want.

Here is info about it from my school and I'm sure that if you go to any other school's site and search for "scholarship" you will find similar things. http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/a...s.html#trustee

[Mariner]

Ah okay. It depends. I will grant you that all these kids could probably get full rides to a good school. It just might not be the school they want to go to.

[Justafan1]

Just chiming in on the subject of financial aid, I have two sons in college now. I am married to a school teacher and I have been a stay-at-home mom for 20 years, we have 5 children and are fortunate enough to own our home and our cars and have no debt. This has all come with much sacrifice and struggle such as pay with cash and don't buy what you don't need. We have not sacrificed fun or vacations but took trips within our means.
With this said because we don't have a mortgage, a mountain of credit card debt or car loans - we have money in the bank (thanks to my husbands being thrifty in his teens) we qualify for NOTHING! No money - the government basically has said take all your hard earned retirement money and use it to educate your kids and then keep working because your retirement is now gone. Now, I don't expect the government to pay for my kids' education but it would have been nice if they said we'll give you a loan without interest while the kids are in school so you can keep your money in the bank to earn interest and you can then pay off the loan when they graduate and keep the interest and maybe be somewhat ahead of the game. But no, no help for the lower middle class who did the right things with their money and now are paying for it.
So from this standpoint - go buy two new cars on payments, buy a big house with a huge mortgage and run up your credit cards - then you can qualify for financial aid for your child. If you do things the right way-you get screwed!

Absolutely true. The family that lives frugaly and saves pennies to NOT get into debts is PUNISHED by the system. Their kids get very little or NO financial iad whatsoever.

If you spend all your money gambling at the casino, you have mountains of debt but driving the latest cars, living large on vacations, have your dream house and the latest gadgets... your kids are in luck. They will most likely be getting full ride or at least the VERY generous financial aid.

This system is totally screwed up.

[psucashcow]

Amen...my husband and I established college funds for our children when they were babies. By the time our oldest was in high school we kept hearing that her savings would count against her applying or qualifying for financial aid. The biggest laffer was filling out the FAFSA form and discovering that out of a $18,000 tuition bill, TPTB expected that the parents should be able to shell out about $16,000. I guess they thought that our family had nothing else we should do with $16,000/yr. Eating and keeping the house warm crossed my mind, personally.

[bebewood]

the thing is that you shouldnt be feeding off the government unless you truly and desperately needed. feel lucky that the government even helps anyone at all when it comes to college.college is a luxury, not a necessity.

[Glitternerfball]

college is a luxury, not a necessity

Actually, nowadays it is a necessity. In the corporate world the Bachelor's today is like a highschool diploma was in the fifties. If you want to actually have a chance of living outside of poverty, you need that expensive peice of paper. And to really stand out you need that masters of Ph.D - which I hear is again only for show and pay increases. Heck, the secretary next to me has two masters degree and is a lawyer certified to work in NY, passed the bar etc. She works as a secretary because it pays more than the entry level jobs in law (plus she had ethical problems when a tobacco company wanted to hire her - so now only does pro bono work for womens shelters) and in the areas of her masters. The point is, nowadays I see even some secretaries have to have a Masters, not just bachelors, so to not have any college is a big disadvantage.