Did these kids ever hear of financial aid?

[Glitternerfball]

College tuitions are definately not made for the middle class and they do what they can to not give you money. But there are so many factors. As the first in my family my mother wanted me to go to a state school, but I figured that the more money the school has the more they can give me. I went to an Ivy league school and am in the same amount of debt as my friends from state schools thanks to scholarships. HOWEVER, I do have more debt than I should because they continually counted in my father's income, even though it was explained multiple times that he is a dead-beat dad and didn't even pay child support, and there was documentation backing it up. Every single friggin year I had to do the financial paper work, file the forms with the state that proved my parents wouldn't pay and have myself declared financially independent.

For these kids, if they are true middle class then they don't have a chance of life w/out debt. While I feel the education is similiar in 'good school' and 'state school' I will tell you that in the business world, and as a woman in NYC, I have had many people say they called me in because of the school I went to, and the only way I got my apartment was because I was the only Ivy Leaguer, which the Landlord pointed out, and he said that is why he was offereing me the apartment, because he knew I would always be employed because of my school. The pedigree still matters in some businesses. But if you're going into a profession such as healthcare, real estate, or teaching - it doesn't matter if you graduate online if you can do the work.

[Google]

 

[NFL1]

I thought the show would provide a "full ride" scholarship...not just tuition? Therefore, the many thousands per year for books, room, board, and other fees or expenses would also be covered for the winner. That's a huge incentive above and beyond full tuition.

As someone who works at a university, I can tell you that the level of financial aid has significantly decreased in the past four years, and I continually hear of many students who may start as freshmen and not be able to continue due to financial hardships. The universities do have limited resources for internal aid, and must count all sources of income to the students in order to make hard choices regarding support across the student population.

I applaud these students for their initiative and drive to be on a program like this, and am so happy that many students will see some benefits (with the $50,000 per finalist, and the rewards from WalMart) - as this will be a huge accomplishment for they and their families even if they don't win overall. AND, I suspect that there may be benefactors stepping up as interested in supporting individuals based on their interests and performances, even if the individual candidate doesn't win the show.

[TymeMarteen]

financial aid sucks ass, as it is all very exclusive. for one thing, if you don't have the money in the first place, how are you expected to pay the money back. also, a lot of the loans you recieve are dependent on a credit check for your parents, and if your parents are anything like mine, credit is something that isn't mentioned too freely. and I am going to a smaller state university in texas, so i cringe to think what going to an ivy league school would do in terms of setting you back, way back.

[rt1ky]

My parents sent me to the library to go through the many LARGE reference books that are filled with nothing but public and private scholarships and funding opportunities for students. They were organized by area of study, what state you lived in, your parents' occupations, illnesses... and not all required high GPAs or test scores. There were many private sources of money that I didn't even knew existed. You just have to get started early. Some money is better than no money at all.

[aname]

Most employers who want you to have a degree in your chosen field usually only care that you have a degree from an accredited school. Two years at a Community College, then a scholarship (which are very easy to get as long as you maintain your grades and need financial assistance) for the last two years can get anyone a very good education. Both my husband and I went through the state university system with the first two years at a community college (much cheaper and transferable to almost any upper division school) and we are certainly not suffering as a result.

[Lah]

Originally Posted by aname

Most employers who want you to have a degree in your chosen field usually only care that you have a degree from an accredited school. Two years at a Community College, then a scholarship (which are very easy to get as long as you maintain your grades and need financial assistance) for the last two years can get anyone a very good education. Both my husband and I went through the state university system with the first two years at a community college (much cheaper and transferable to almost any upper division school) and we are certainly not suffering as a result.

Perhaps not. But if your (hypothetical or otherwise) child had the opportunity to go to an Ivy on a full ride from the kind folks at Wal-mart...well, why not take it?

As for whether name schools count in the eyes of employers...I would say that yes, in some instances they do. A 3.5 GPA at Podunk U is not the same as a 3.5 GPA from Harvard, and some employers do look at that. And, of course, with a name school, you get the extensive alumni network (mucho usable for netting those drool-worthy internships) as well as the superb professors/advisors to guide you in your work and write you recommendations for grad school.

Now, ultimately, where you did your undergraduate matters less than these 17 and 18 year olds think...but it does help you when you're fresh out of the gate.

[rt1ky]

The Ivy League is prestigious and historic, but like ANY college or university, there is grade inflation, preference to major donors and famous alumni... Many people have made great and wonderful achievements and have found amazing jobs without graduating from the Ivy League. Out of High School, I was recruited by Yale, Princeton and Harvard. All offered me money. My parents were thrilled, but we discussed it and I ended up going to a smaller private university. It wasn't Ivy League, but it still has a good reputation and I LOVED it there. I don't feel cheated out of anything and I don't think my life will suffer for it. At some schools that people would consider "Podunk U' actually turn out to be really good schools. If people look beyond the classism behind some of the enduring mystique of the Ivy League, we would see that there are MANY schools where students of allcaliber can succeed and have a successful careers. We too often view success in terms of paychecks and tuition.
Of the "40 Richest People Under 40," only 7 attended Ivy League schools.
Link

Grade Inflation Story

MARCH 2005
The Price of Prestige
Is an Ivy League Education Worth the Investment? We Do the Math

By SOLJANE MARTINEZ
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

It has long been assumed that an Ivy League education was better than a public university. These days, however, not everyone agrees.

For many people, if course, the final decision often is dictated by what's affordable. But the question you should ask yourself is: Are the most expensive schools really worth the extra money, or might the same opportunities be available--at lower cost--from public universities?

To Eric Eide, an economist at Brigham Young University, the balance tips without question in favor of the Ivy League. A degree from Harvard or Yale can make a big difference in how quickly you get a job after graduation and how high a salary you'll command, he says. "Even with the tuition disparity, graduates from top private schools make more money," says Mr. Eide.

Mr. Eide cites a 1999 study that found that the higher tuition at Ivy League schools proved a better investment based on the wages earned by graduates. The study looked at 1972, 1980 and 1982 high-school graduates who attended public and Ivy League universities. It found that members of the class of 1972 who graduated from elite universities earned 15% higher hourly wages in 1986 than their counterparts who went to less-competitive schools. Class of 1980 graduates earned 20% more, and 1982 graduates made 39% more.

'New Work Model'

Some career consultants, however, argue that Ivy League degrees are no longer as valuable as they once were in the workplace. "There's a new work model these days," says Barbara Moses, president of a human-resource consulting firm in Toronto. "Although the prestige of an Ivy or highly recognizable school enables you to get out of the gate faster ... employers are looking for what you can do. They're looking for a rich portfolio of skills instead of prestige."

She adds: "If you have two equally bright, well-spoken grads capable of solving problems, 10 years later the two will not be substantially different. In the long term, the differences between an Ivy grad and a state grad will start to average themselves out."

Cambrietta Frierson, a 1993 graduate of the University of Pennsylvania, says she isn't sure her Ivy degree was really worth the extra expense. She has five more years to go before she has paid off her $104,000 debt. "I love where I went to school," she says, but "could I have made the same types of connections elsewhere? Without a doubt." Ms. Frierson is a freelance TV producer in California. "For the field I'm working in, my degree's not necessary," she says. "At least the price tag on my degree wasn't."

Others say that, all things being equal, an Ivy League degree offers an advantage in any number of situations, from applying to competitive graduate schools to seeking a promotion. "An Ivy education does open doors," says Zazy Lopez, a recent Yale graduate who is now at the Penn law school in Philadelphia. "If a senior in high school were to ask me, 'Where should I go--Yale or a state school?' my answer would be Yale, because it is an Ivy."

No one can put an exact measure on the value of a good education. But to give you something concrete to go on, we attempted to come up with a quick analysis of the costs and benefits of attending an Ivy League vs. a public university. First we looked at the tuition and likely loans necessary to attend each university. Then we checked the estimated starting salaries of their graduates.

Start with Yale. Attending Yale would cost you about $35,170 this academic year, including tuition, room and board, personal expenses and books. For four years, that all adds up to roughly $141,000.

Yale expects you and your parents to pay for a little less than half that, or $13,650 a year, out of pocket, and assumes you'll get about $6,000 a year in federal student loans. Assuming you cover the remaining $15,600 with more loans from other, nongovernment sources, you will have borrowed a total of about $86,000 after four years. Factor in roughly $37,000 in interest on all that debt, and your repayments will total $123,000 over 10 years.

By comparison, tuition and fees at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill last year would have cost a nonresident about $84,000 over four years. The university would expect your family to pay about $10,000 a year upfront. If you didn't receive any financial aid, you'd have to cover the remainder--about $44,000-through federal and other loans. Add interest payments of roughly $17,000 to the total debt, and your total loan payments would come to about $61,000.

Compared with Yale, that's a huge difference. Yet the first-year starting salaries earned by graduates of the two universities are very similar, at least on average. The alumni office at Chapel Hill says the average starting salary for its graduates is the same as the national average--about $27,000. Yale's alumni office says its average is about $28,500.

Long-Term Impact

Over the long run, BYU's Mr. Eide and others argue, that spread is likely to expand. But Ms. Moses and other critics of the Ivy League mystique argue that top UNC graduates stand a good chance of keeping pace or surpassing the salaries of those from Yale, and will face a much lighter burden in paying off their loans.

In the Yale example, a standard 10-year student-loan repayment plan would require monthly payments of $1,024--about 43% of the average gross monthly starting salary. At UNC, the monthly payment would be about $513--or about 23% of average monthly pay for new grads.

The difference is even more startling when you look at how much the two graduates would have to earn for their monthly payments to stay within what the government considers a safe level--10% to 15% of your monthly income.

To stay within that range, the Yale graduate with $86,000 in student loans must immediately start earning a salary of $82,000 a year. The graduate of UNC with $44,000 in debt would have to earn only $41,000.

Although it seems like it all comes down to money in the end, the most important factor to take into consideration when deciding on a university is maximizing your future options, says Ms. Moses.

"If you choose a school and you're not certain of its reputation among employers, check it out beforehand," she says. "Any decisions you make now will have a long-term impact on your choices."

Link to above story

[oneTVslave]

I don't think that you have to go to an Ivy League school to succeed in life. But you can't argue that employers recognize the names Harvard, Yale, etc. and know that to graduate with honors from those schools takes a lot of hard work. For whatever reason, some of these kids really want to attend one of the better-known, prestigious schools - as is their right. Maybe they are tired of being the best in their class and want the challenges that these schools have to offer. I'm sure that the ones that were accepted to Ivy League schools also applied to other schools as well. Whether or not they win this competition may determine whether they go to their first choice Ivy League school or to one of their second choices that may be more willing to give them more scholarship and financial aid assistance. Either way, I'm sure that they all have great potential to become very successful in whatever they choose to do.

[Lah]

Out of High School, I was recruited by Yale, Princeton and Harvard. All offered me money. My parents were thrilled, but we discussed it and I ended up going to a smaller private university. It wasn't Ivy League, but it still has a good reputation and I LOVED it there. I don't feel cheated out of anything and I don't think my life will suffer for it. At some schools that people would consider "Podunk U' actually turn out to be really good schools. If people look beyond the classism behind some of the enduring mystique of the Ivy League, we would see that there are MANY schools where students of allcaliber can succeed and have a successful careers.

Good for you! And I'm glad you found the college that was right for you. The Ivies aren't for everybody. I have a friend who just had to go to Columbia, found herself terribly unhappy there, and ended up transferring to Randolph-Macon, where she absolutely thrived.

Small liberal arts colleges offer, in some ways, advantages over larger name-brand universities. And certain reputable private universities (like University of Chicago) I consider just as good as Yale or Princeton. But I was primarily addressing the poster who said that employers don't care about pedigree at all. Um, some certainly do care. And while community colleges are extremely economical, and while most state universities are decent institutions of higher-learning, in general the quality of education there is much inferior (unless, of course, you're in the honors program...but that's a different story.)

That's not saying that everyone who goes to the Ivies will succeed, and everyone who goes to Podunk U's will be doomed to a life as a shoe-polisher...but in general I think going to a well-ranked private university (Ivy or not) will give you a better quality of education, better contacts, and more of an edge (at least initially) in the job pool.

ETA: But back on topic - so I don't begrudge these kids (no, not even Davis with his relatively comfortable upper-middle class background) their desire to go the Yale or Harvard or any other hallowed institution. They are bright, they are worthy, they had the incredible luck to be chosen for this easy-peasy televised competition...so why not let them have their cake and eat it too? Why ask them to stew in virtuous mediocrity at a state university, or be burdened with a mountain of loans like the rest of us did - when they needn't do either?

[rt1ky]

Originally Posted by Lah

ETA: But back on topic - so I don't begrudge these kids (no, not even Davis with his relatively comfortable upper-middle class background) their desire to go the Yale or Harvard or any other hallowed institution. They are bright, they are worthy, they had the incredible luck to be chosen for this easy-peasy televised competition...so why not let them have their cake and eat it too? Why ask them to stew in virtuous mediocrity at a state university, or be burdened with a mountain of loans like the rest of us did - when they needn't do either?

I agree. I hope there will be an update show on where the other students ending up going to college.