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Thread: Who's right: Rocco or Jeffrey?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by daysee8
    First, the way he waits to do anything about the financial situation until the cameras start rolling. New York magazine just wrote about the feud, and Chodorow says in there that he did not want to do a second season, and Burnett told him to clean things up on camera, and they'd show it. So he really WAS only taking an interest in things for the cameras ... not the business.
    I do have to take a little issue with that statement. What I got out of the New York Magazine article was that Chodorow didn't want to do another season of the show, as he thought it made him look like a poor businessman. Burnett talked him into it by saying he would show him fixing the business as part of the show, which would show that Chodorow was actually a good businessman. (Hee, little did he know he'd be portrayed as the devil.)

    Presumably -- and admittedly, this is an assumption on my part -- he would have done what he needed to do to fix it or get out of the partnership whether or not the cameras were running. I am assuming that based on the idea that all his other restaurants are either successful or closed.

    Also, perhaps the delay was due to filming schedules (not that I'm defending that).

    I do agree with you that his style of dealing with the problems is sickening. And that letting the problems fester for months without having continuous, open, frank communication with Rocco is bad business. (But good drama!)

  2. #32
    Don't Panic senrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daysee8
    It is not his first restaurant. Before Rocco's and The Restaurant, Rocco had (and still has) another restaurant, Union Pacific. He was also a guest host on a Food Channel show (Melting Pot), did various apperances on shows like Today, Letterman, etc, has one cookbook out and another in the works, has the lovely cookware that was featured on the show, and other things. The assistant is for the Rocco "empire", not just Rocco's.
    I can't put my finger on this, but if he is such a mogul in the NY Culinary world (which honestly I don't, seeing the success of places like Le Circque or Nola, etc) why does he have such a hard time with the concept of "if the business doesn't make a profit it goes out of business.... "

    After all, its not like its a dotcom or anything..... oh, wait.....

    I'd like to add that Management styles are what they are.... Jefferey is looking at the bottom line, and not liking what he sees. Red ink. And when he asks the person in charge he gets a ..... wait for it..... no comment.

    no comment?

    Does Rocco care that its losing money? that in a year they could be forced to close?

    What is Rocco in all of this? Certainly not the brains, or else the business would have turned a profit.

    The 'artiste'? Not to burst anyone's bubble, but from what I saw of the first ep, he had just brought a guy from italy to add something new to the menu. Why would Rocco do this if he had new ideas?
    Last edited by senrik; 04-21-2004 at 04:22 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by senrik
    I can't put my finger on this, but if he is such a mogul in the NY Culinary world (which honestly I don't, seeing the success of places like Le Circque or Nola, etc) why does he have such a hard time with the concept of "if the business doesn't make a profit it goes out of business.... "

    After all, its not like its a dotcom or anything..... oh, wait.....

    I'd like to add that Management styles are what they are.... Jefferey is looking at the bottom line, and not liking what he sees. Red ink. And when he asks the person in charge he gets a ..... wait for it..... no comment.

    no comment?

    Does Rocco care that its losing money? that in a year they could be forced to close?

    What is Rocco in all of this? Certainly not the brains, or else the business would have turned a profit.

    The 'artiste'? Not to burst anyone's bubble, but from what I saw of the first ep, he had just brought a guy from italy to add something new to the menu. Why would Rocco do this if he had new ideas?
    You've already admitted you didn't watch last season, right? it shows.

    First, the comment that you quoted from me was explaining why Rocco has an assistant ... you asked a question, I answered it. No need to twist it into my claiming Rocco is some sort of mogul.

    Second, had you watched the first season, you'd have known that Rocco explained that while he has an Itallian background, he never cooked Itallian food professionally. He had a vision for a restaurant that would be the food he remembered from his childhood served in such an environment. The reason he brought his mom and others in is that THEY knew Itallian food, not him. That would likely also be the reason he brought in the Itallian guy.

  4. #34
    Don't Panic senrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daysee8
    You've already admitted you didn't watch last season, right? it shows.

    First, the comment that you quoted from me was explaining why Rocco has an assistant ... you asked a question, I answered it. No need to twist it into my claiming Rocco is some sort of mogul.

    Second, had you watched the first season, you'd have known that Rocco explained that while he has an Itallian background, he never cooked Itallian food professionally. He had a vision for a restaurant that would be the food he remembered from his childhood served in such an environment. The reason he brought his mom and others in is that THEY knew Itallian food, not him. That would likely also be the reason he brought in the Itallian guy.
    I can see where you thought my comments were sarcastic. I never meant it as such.

    I didn't watch the beginning of the first season, but I have seen him on Melting Post, as well as having at UP a few times (when I lived in NYC). That all being said, artistry is about the take-away, that is to say what you take away from an experience.

    Rocco went to italy for ideas, and came back with a guy? I would think that being a chef, going to a place, being able to get in the kitchen with some of the people, that he could create his own thing, his own experience.

    I recall a Restauarant down on First Avenue and 60th street (maybe 61st, Its hard to recall these things from the other side of the country), A mexican place, that periodically goes to Mexico for inspiration on real Mexican food. They return, not with a chef, but with an idea, a take-away.

    This is the point I am getting at: where is the artistry? where is the love of creation.....

    bah.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by senrik
    I can see where you thought my comments were sarcastic. I never meant it as such.

    I didn't watch the beginning of the first season, but I have seen him on Melting Post, as well as having at UP a few times (when I lived in NYC). That all being said, artistry is about the take-away, that is to say what you take away from an experience.

    Rocco went to italy for ideas, and came back with a guy? I would think that being a chef, going to a place, being able to get in the kitchen with some of the people, that he could create his own thing, his own experience.

    I recall a Restauarant down on First Avenue and 60th street (maybe 61st, Its hard to recall these things from the other side of the country), A mexican place, that periodically goes to Mexico for inspiration on real Mexican food. They return, not with a chef, but with an idea, a take-away.

    This is the point I am getting at: where is the artistry? where is the love of creation.....

    bah.
    At UP, with the food he actually KNOWS well? Look I've never been a chef, but I would think that being shocked over this would be kind of like being shocked that Picasso wasn't a master photographer simply because he was a great painter. I would venture to guess that Picasso could take a pretty darn good photograph, but I'd also venture to guess that he was no Ansel Adams. Being at the top of a field does not mean you've mastered ALL aspects of that field.

    Please also don't forget that we're only seeing snippets. Did Rocco go to Italy solely to get ideas for Roccos? Or did he go for a family vacation, and while there say "this would be great for Rocco's"? After returning, did he share ANYTHING from his trip, or did he just kick and say "This guy is coming, he'll tell you what I know"? No idea on either of those ... because it all happened before the taping started up again.

    I would also venture to guess that in ROCCO'S mind, when he's going to book signings, TV apperances, walking the red carpet at various parties, etc etc etc, that he's promoting Rocco's and drumming up business for the restaurant. So, while many of us are saying "he's ignoring the place" I'm guessing that in HIS mind, he's doing all of those things FOR the place. And I'd say that it was a valid argument, with one key exception ... if you're going to market the place for a face or a personality, then customers are goingto come looking for htat personality. If he's not there (because he's doing MORE red carpets, appearnaces, etc) then the plan he's come up with does not work.

  6. #36
    Don't Panic senrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daysee8
    ...
    I would also venture to guess that in ROCCO'S mind, when he's going to book signings, TV apperances, walking the red carpet at various parties, etc etc etc, that he's promoting Rocco's and drumming up business for the restaurant. So, while many of us are saying "he's ignoring the place" I'm guessing that in HIS mind, he's doing all of those things FOR the place. And I'd say that it was a valid argument, with one key exception ... if you're going to market the place for a face or a personality, then customers are goingto come looking for htat personality. If he's not there (because he's doing MORE red carpets, appearnaces, etc) then the plan he's come up with does not work.
    Therein lies the dilemma.
    I used to work for a friend, who started a boutique Internet based Executive recruiting company. Pounded the pavement hard at the time (1998, if it matters), and while she met a lot of people, and gathered a lot of buzz, the business fizzled.

    why?

    Because there is a difference between marketing yourself, and marketing your business.

    Look at Martha Stewart. While I don't think she is a very nice person, she is a shrewd business person. Everything she does promotes her business. Thats not what I see Happening on "The Restaurant" though. I see women flocking to him for his looks and because he is famous.

    Does it bring people into the Restaurant? maybe, maybe not. Even Jeffery saw that business was good, just that the financials suck.

    $9k for 5k business cards? Full color business cards run somewhere in the $200 range for that quantity. Maybe its special card stock? whats that run? Maybe its made with special ink made from the birthing of Japanese octupus but only every 5 years.... Its gotta be something like that. Are you seriously defending that this man doesn't know what he is doing books-wise?
    "The purpose of the new capitalism is to shoot the wounded." ~ Andy Grove, Chairman, Intel Corporation

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrdobolina
    Personally, I think the only person who is *right* is Topher for getting the hell out of there while he had a chance!!

    This is all drama produced by the players(rocco, jeffrey, crew, etc) to make the show more scintilating.
    re: Topher!! Sooo true.

    And I don't really "buy" all the drama...it's so dang forced it seems. This is how it seemed last year too.
    "If you're like me, you have a 'been there, done that' attitude when it comes to paleolithic paleontology." - Jon Stewart

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  8. #38
    Don't Panic senrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shazzer
    re: Topher!! Sooo true.

    And I don't really "buy" all the drama...it's so dang forced it seems. This is how it seemed last year too.


    Shockingly I agree.
    "The purpose of the new capitalism is to shoot the wounded." ~ Andy Grove, Chairman, Intel Corporation

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by senrik
    Therein lies the dilemma.
    I used to work for a friend, who started a boutique Internet based Executive recruiting company. Pounded the pavement hard at the time (1998, if it matters), and while she met a lot of people, and gathered a lot of buzz, the business fizzled.

    why?

    Because there is a difference between marketing yourself, and marketing your business.

    Look at Martha Stewart. While I don't think she is a very nice person, she is a shrewd business person. Everything she does promotes her business. Thats not what I see Happening on "The Restaurant" though. I see women flocking to him for his looks and because he is famous.

    Does it bring people into the Restaurant? maybe, maybe not. Even Jeffery saw that business was good, just that the financials suck.

    $9k for 5k business cards? Full color business cards run somewhere in the $200 range for that quantity. Maybe its special card stock? whats that run? Maybe its made with special ink made from the birthing of Japanese octupus but only every 5 years.... Its gotta be something like that. Are you seriously defending that this man doesn't know what he is doing books-wise?
    If you're reading me to be defending Rocco, then you're reading me wrong. I see PLEANTLY of flaws and fault with him. I simply see as much (if not more) in Chodorow. I don't see it as an "either or" equation. I see it as they are both assholes.

    Look, I agree with 98% of what you've said in this post. Do I think that women flocking to a man because he's hot can sell a product? Absolutely! That explains the record sales for boy bands and Ricky Martin. And I believe that in Rocco's case, he THINKS he's doing the same thing. Do I think it's working for him? No. Because I think that if the way to get people into Rocco's is via "Rocco the Personallity", then he has to be there, working the crowd on a regular basis. If he wants to fill seats on "Rocco the reputation", then he needs to get in there to make the place work ... which probably means making it an Asian fusion place, since that's what he knows. I haven't gone to Wolfgang Puck restaurants with hopes of seeing Wolfgang. I've gone with hopes of eating his food. But if Puck was known for mediocre food, but was a celebrity worth being near, I'd expect to see HIM when I am there.

    Regarding the costs, place being full, etc ... I've heard in many places that the place has NOT been full all the time since opening. It was really busy right after the first season aired, but it sounds like business has dropped off since then. Does it surprise me that ROcco and Chodorow would both say on TV "IT's full all the time" if it's not? No! They're both blowhards. Therefore, I'm not sure I belive the business card claims either. But they're easier to believe, based on Rocco's reputation for being a "This is what I want, cost be damned" kind of guy.

    In short ... I can't stand Chodorow, I don't like Rocco. My putting one down does not mean I'm siding with the other.

  10. #40
    Don't Panic senrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daysee8
    If you're reading me to be defending Rocco, then you're reading me wrong. I see PLEANTLY of flaws and fault with him. I simply see as much (if not more) in Chodorow. I don't see it as an "either or" equation. I see it as they are both assholes.

    Look, I agree with 98% of what you've said in this post. Do I think that women flocking to a man because he's hot can sell a product? Absolutely! That explains the record sales for boy bands and Ricky Martin. And I believe that in Rocco's case, he THINKS he's doing the same thing. Do I think it's working for him? No. Because I think that if the way to get people into Rocco's is via "Rocco the Personallity", then he has to be there, working the crowd on a regular basis. If he wants to fill seats on "Rocco the reputation", then he needs to get in there to make the place work ... which probably means making it an Asian fusion place, since that's what he knows. I haven't gone to Wolfgang Puck restaurants with hopes of seeing Wolfgang. I've gone with hopes of eating his food. But if Puck was known for mediocre food, but was a celebrity worth being near, I'd expect to see HIM when I am there.

    Regarding the costs, place being full, etc ... I've heard in many places that the place has NOT been full all the time since opening. It was really busy right after the first season aired, but it sounds like business has dropped off since then. Does it surprise me that ROcco and Chodorow would both say on TV "IT's full all the time" if it's not? No! They're both blowhards. Therefore, I'm not sure I belive the business card claims either. But they're easier to believe, based on Rocco's reputation for being a "This is what I want, cost be damned" kind of guy.

    In short ... I can't stand Chodorow, I don't like Rocco. My putting one down does not mean I'm siding with the other.
    Ok, that was my assumption then. My apologies.
    as for Old Pucky boy, I don't think he is doing OK, considering he just closed his Seattle Restaurant.
    "The purpose of the new capitalism is to shoot the wounded." ~ Andy Grove, Chairman, Intel Corporation

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