I haven't seen the show in a long time, but I saw a couple of episodes this morning when they were repeating them.
Let me preface this by saying I give Bethenny an extraordinary amount of credit for her success.
Having said that, I do find her very draining. Everything is about her all of the time. I have a friend who's somewhat like that, but certainly not as difficult to be around for any length of time.
I'm not saying that Jason is totally guilt free in this scenario.
However, I do think that Bethenny would be extremely rough to deal with and when I watch her I hate to say it but I always think of the very unflattering name that my father used to bestow upon women who were emasculating.
To Thine Own Self Be True
"Passive aggression" doesn't just mean non-aggression in the face of outright aggression. It's not an alternate solution to yelling that can be healthy and effective, just like minor displacement or short-term denial. Psychologically speaking, it can't be a defense mechanism. Passive-aggression, while it comes out maybe as a reaction to something, isn't "developed" as a defense. It's a learned behavior - so he picked it up from his mother, his father, an aunt or an uncle or a cousin or whoever in his life when he was young. It's the same as Bethenny's aggression.
By the way, I have the same family experience, and I know that my father learned his passive aggression as a child from his mother. When I was younger it may have seemed like my father became passive aggressive suddenly when I was about 13, but in reality that's just when I identified what was going on, and when he turned that abusive behavior towards me, and not just my mother. Looking back objectively, I can see that he was that way for my entire life, from the time I was a baby. And by the way, passive-aggression can be just as abusive, mean, and hurtful as outright aggression, if not more so.
No one else in my father's family was passive-aggressive. I know; I was there. My father developed this in reaction to being overpowered and emasculated by my mother. There was no way for ANYONE to reason with my mother or have any kind of direct discussion with her about her behavior. No one could deal with her. You either had to get away from her to save yourself, or when you couldn't stand it anymore and got to the breaking point and were unable to run away, becoming passive-aggressive was the reaction. Not a good choice, but people can be pushed only so far. My mother just pushed him to the breaking point sometimes. AND my father was not abusive to me, or to my mother, or to anyone else. Sorry if that was your experience with your father, tears.and.rain.
Obviously you're entitled to your opinions and I can't speak to what happened in your family. When I said "someone in his family" I meant Jason's family. But I do know what the science of psychology tells us, which is that passive aggression is not developed as a defense mechanism, but is developed separately.
I wasn't intending to imply that your father had been abusive to anyone, just stating that passive agression itself isn't inherently less harmful than aggression. I don't think I was particularly clear - because passive aggression comes out in a reaction to something (just like aggression) it can appear to be a defense mechanism. So being there makes it seem like it's developed in defense of something - just like it seems that Jason is becoming passive-aggressive to deal with Bethenny, when in reality, his passive aggression has been a part of their dynamic just as much as her aggression from the beginning.
I do know a bit about psychology, too, and my older brother, who grew up in the same home as I did with the same father and mother, has a PhD in psychology and is a national consultant to school systems, prison systems, and attorneys, as well as more than 40 years clinical experience, has also observed that our father never was passive-aggressive in any other setting with any other person. My brother knows the difference between what "is" and what "seems to be," even if it is being assumed that I do not. Everyone developed defense mechanisms in reaction to my mother's behavior ... and that was my father's. It's getting a bit ridiculous to argue about it. Many people knew my father before he married my mother, and they all knew what a sweet and kind man he was, as well as the kind of effect my mother had on people. I'm really not going to argue this anymore. It's getting OT, and I was just stating my experience in response to a contradictory statement made by someone else, which I have the right to do without being challenged on a personal level. Your experience is one thing, mine is another.
Last edited by AlwaysVeg; 05-29-2012 at 12:46 AM.
I think it would be tough for anyone to be married to Bethanny. Basically, I like her but she's handful of total self-involvement and previous damage that she can't get past.
I also think Jason was a good choice for her. If she'd married someone like her, driven, hard A-type person, they would have probably had a longer marriage but they would have been ships passin in the night.
Jason may have bitten off more than he could chew but how do you know until you're in it? Whatever his reasons, he's certainly become more combative with Bethanny and seems to be trying to stand up to her and she can definitely be a "ba!!-breaker," maybe without even realizing it.
Jason was just plain wrong in how he handled her birthday last year....even though she behaved like a petulant child. Unconsciously, he probably was getting back at her, while disguising it as doing something nice for her.
But it seemed rather transparent to me.
I don't know if they'll make it or not. I'm not sure Bethanny can make it with any guy.
She's just too tough to deal with, and carries huge baggage, that she refuses to put down.
Only she can change her life.
She wants to be in charge, control everyone in her circle and then hate them for letting her do it, unless she's paying them.
She had a lousy childhood..........so now what are you going to do with that??? Let it control your whole life??
I know it sounds harsh but that's how I see it.
I think what people are getting irritated with is her honesty streak. She is saying that she has not figured it all out; and she feels like she should have. She will learn to shut her mouth concerning Jason and show him the love he needs.
My best guess--I will say that they will make it. Bethenny does have a good guy. And we know there are many people out there that are not good (even though they look like it). I have read her natal chart based on the information I have (and did the flakey analysis non-astrological that I do).
I say she will calm her a$$ down on the topic of Jason but get riled up on other topics. And he will be there to give her good advice. Just because she is learning how to do this at a different time in her life than maybe a lot of other people does not mean she will not learn to.
And on the business front, my guess is a stormier path. But that is ok if she has him plan the money part out. She is not good with money.
Last edited by Lizard; 05-29-2012 at 07:46 AM.
The last word isn't really important in situations when nobody is listening.
My point, getting back on topic, was that I don't believe that Jason's passive-aggression developed from anything Bethenny has done. I believe it was a part of him before they got married or even met, and I don't think we can blame things that are inherently part of Jason on Bethenny. I don't think it's fair to attribute everything that's wrong in this marriage to Bethenny, and I wouldn't say it's all Jason's fault either.
Honestly, I don't like to watch her anymore either. She's grating, she's obnoxious, she is self-centered. But I don't think it's fair to say that she brought all these issues with her, and I do think that's how a lot of people are looking at it. How many posts on these boards are about "poor Jason he didn't know what he was getting into she treats him so poorly he's the only man that would ever love her and look how she treats him. He should be enough for her and she should stop pursuing all these career opportunities because it's not fair to him and she's emasculating." Obviously that's an exaggerated mashup of a lot of individual opinions. But I feel like people don't take into account that Jason is not perfect, and his imperfections were not caused by Bethenny.
I have a problem with the term "ball-buster" because it equates being challenged with being emasculated. Bethenny's too challenging to be pleasant to anyone, regardless of their genitalia. But I wonder why we, as a society, consider women who behave that way towards men "emasculating" while men who are that way to women aren't "efeminating." This is not a reaction to anyone's specific comments, we all use "ball-buster" as a term and don't think about it's full implications, probably because we don't have a better word to ascribe to someone who is constantly challenging people.