+ Reply to Thread
Like Tree3403Likes

Thread: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

  1. #2071
    FORT Fogey momrek06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Orange County, California
    Posts
    4,361

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by newshound;3949008;
    Yes, but you know WAY before the end of the semester that you are headed for several Cs and one D+.

    I have a lot of empathy for those with LDs and believe that they should receive accommodations. But I have little sympathy for students who know they aren't doing well and then wait until the 11th hour to seek help and then claim that the school teachers and administrators are insensitive or carrying a personal vendetta against the student, and that is what Albie and his mother seemed to suggest.
    We also need to keep in mind that we ONLY have ONE side of the story; Albie's.

    ITA, that students know their grades and know how they are doing way before the semester ends.
    KAREN

  2. #2072
    Being VIP Yardgnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Harnessing my evil for good.
    Posts
    5,473

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by newshound;3949008;
    Yes, but you know WAY before the end of the semester that you are headed for several Cs and one D+.
    This isn't necessarily true. My law school, you have just one grade for the whole semester, your final that you take. The school doesn't collect case briefs and outlines to make sure you are doing them. That's all on the student. It's also all on the student to make sure they are studying and keeping up. Your class grade all comes down to how well you perform on a 3 hour exam.

    I'm sympathetic to Albie in the sense that I just graduated from Law School and know how tough it can be. I also know that Law School isn't for everyone and if you're not willing to put in the time and effort then you're never going to succeed, that includes people with learning disabilities. I'm sure part of his problem was never seeking help when he needed it (or too late in the game) and probably not putting forth a full effort.

  3. #2073
    FORT Fogey PA Snow Bunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    3,091

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by tears.and.rain;3948493;
    Who's noted that he cut lots of classes?? No one here....

    Maybe you're right. Maybe they are all lying, he has no disability, he never showed up for school, and they manufactured that entire thing. In fact, I bet they only let him into law school in the first place because of the show!

    I'm just saying. If he DOES have a legitimate learning disability - which we have no reason to doubt - then he should have been offered help. However, when discussing his situation with his mother, it did seem like they were both acknowledging he'd had a tough semester. I think that the most plausible explanation is that he DOES have a learning disability, but he was doing fine despite that (lots of kids don't bring up their LD once they get into college if they've been functioning fine) and then all of a sudden it was tripping him up more than he expected. Since the school should have been made aware of it from the start, if he was going to need assistance, they aren't willing to change for him now.

    I'm truly interested to know more about this situation....
    This isn't high school & no one is going to take you by the hand & offer you assistance. Mommie & Daddy can't do it for you. There is help available but you need to do the leg work yourself.
    My ds has a learning disability however HE went to the professor TO ASK for HELP. He graduated this spring 2nd in his class & on Dean's List.
    If it takes Albie 3-4 times to understand something maybe being an attorney isn't the right fit for him. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't attorneys charge by billable hours so if it takes Albie 3 times as long to read & prepare a brief, who should pay for this extra time he needs?

  4. #2074
    FORT Fan
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    158

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by PA Snow Bunny;3949072;
    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't attorneys charge by billable hours so if it takes Albie 3 times as long to read & prepare a brief, who should pay for this extra time he needs?
    Attorneys who work for private firms are expected to bill anywhere from 1800-2200 hours a year, with the most prestigious firms paying the best but also requiring the most hours. An associate's salary is based on generating three times what they bill (a first year making $100k/yr would be expected to generate $300,000 of revenue -- the other thirds go to overhead and to partner profit). Keep in mind that the traditional work-year is 2000 hours (50 weeks of 40-hour weeks; two weeks of vacation).

    Generally, most attorneys work at least an hour and a half for every hour they bill. A person who takes longer to assimilate information and analyze it would have to 'eat' the difference. For someone like Albie, he'd be working closer to three hours for every hour he billable hour. It's not impossible, but it does require a tremendous effort and discipline. And no fooling around.

    Public or other types of practice (like in-house counsel) do not have billing requirements but your work is still judged by your productivity.

    So a lawyer dies and goes to heaven (suspend disbelief for just a moment). He goes to St. Peter and says,

    "I don't understand, I'm only 29 years old!"

    St. Peter: "But your billing statements from your firm show you were at least 120."


    I do feel for Albie -- it's probably the first time he's been allowed to fail at anything. I believe his angst was heartfelt and real. I cannot imagine having that kind of conversation as the cameras rolled -- just for its entertainment value.

  5. #2075
    FORT Fan MMLEsq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Weston, FL
    Posts
    263

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by momrek06;3949026;
    ITA, that students know their grades and know how they are doing way before the semester ends.
    As others have already mentioned, in many law school classes -- especially the first year -- your entire grade is based on one final exam.

    I remember my 1L year as being challenging for that very reason. Also, it's a different way of studying/learning (rather than memorizing facts, you really need to learn how to start thinking like a lawyer...taking a situation and analyzing how it compares to other fact patterns, analytical reasoning, etc.).

    However, once you figure that out, I didn't think the second and third years of law school were all that hard. The hardest parts about law school were getting in (I went to one of the top 5 law schools) and figuring out how to study during that first year.

    I don't know enough of the details about Albie's situation to have an opinion about whether the school should have done more to accomodate whatever learning issues he might have. And I would never tell someone that they shouldn't pursue a certain career if that's his or her lifelong dream. But, based on his quote in the referenced article, it sounds like he didn't do all that well on the LSAT, and he's clearly struggling with his classes. He's probably going to have a difficult time with the bar exam. It would seem, JMHO, that he should explore other careers that might be a better fit for his aptitudes, because lawyers have to read a lot, so even after graudating from law school and passing the bar exam, the work itself is going to be challenging for anyone who has reading issues.

  6. #2076
    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the blue TV screen light
    Posts
    2,700

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    We don't have enough information to take the position that this law school (Seton Hall) has wronged Albie. If (prior to or upon admission) he identified himself as a student with a learning impairment and adequately documented his condition for the school, there is no question that accommodations would have been made for him, by law. These accommodations would have been carefully planned and executed based on his needs. We don't know whether or not he did this.

    It should also be noted that virtually all accredited colleges/universities/professional schools routinely discharge students who do not maintain the minimum GPA for 2 straight semesters. This is a bar that cannot be lowered, even for a student with learning disabilities. Who wants a doctor or a lawyer (or an accountant, etc.) who graduated with a one-point-anything GPA?
    "Blessed is the lonesome pioneer." -- Judee Sill (1973, "There's a Rugged Road")

  7. #2077
    FORT Fogey
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,796

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Agreed. Since we don't have all the information, we can't condemn the school OR Albie.

  8. #2078
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The Motor City
    Posts
    2,321

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Quote Originally Posted by Yardgnome;3949050;
    This isn't necessarily true. My law school, you have just one grade for the whole semester, your final that you take. The school doesn't collect case briefs and outlines to make sure you are doing them. That's all on the student. It's also all on the student to make sure they are studying and keeping up. Your class grade all comes down to how well you perform on a 3 hour exam.

    I'm sympathetic to Albie in the sense that I just graduated from Law School and know how tough it can be. I also know that Law School isn't for everyone and if you're not willing to put in the time and effort then you're never going to succeed, that includes people with learning disabilities. I'm sure part of his problem was never seeking help when he needed it (or too late in the game) and probably not putting forth a full effort.
    Actually, I think that is pretty true for most law schools. You only have one exam at the end of the semester for each class - and that exam is your entire grade. Guess it is supposed to prepare you for the bar - where your entire career future rides on one test!

  9. #2079
    FORT Fogey
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1,796

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    Oy, I can't imagine that stress.

    Since I think we've beaten that horse enough, here's a subject change:

    I used to think it was a little ridiculous that Teresa refused to even be friends with anyone who was associated with Danielle. After seeing Kim G.'s behavior, I think it's pretty smart. Consider the type of people who would actually be friends with that woman. Are those the types of people you want in your life?? I mean, you have to consider that there's a difference between being friendly and being actual friends, but I wouldn't have any of her close friends in my life either.

    For all the negative things there are to say about Teresa (and there are plenty) I have to give her credit for her graciousness at the party. If someone who was as drunk as Kim D. clearly was came and took the mic during my speech, in a clear attempt to simply link herself to me to be on the show, I don't know that I would have been able to just laugh it off.

  10. #2080
    FORT Fan stcroix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    392

    Re: The Real Housewives of New Jersey

    I may be in the minority here.... but Jacqueline's little smug smile gets my goat! SHE'S the one who brought Danielle into the group, even got into a fight with her sister in laws at the restaurant over them being mean and showing the book around. Why is it that now when the others are discussing Danielle she's suddenly so innocent? They tend to blame Dina for keeping Danielle in the group now, with Jacqueline shaking her head in judgement in the background! She just comes across so smug to me. I liked her at first, but after a few shows I got tired of her blah personality. I wouldn't be upset if she left the show. (obviously!)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.