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Thread: a philosophical question

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    Now you see me... elysive's Avatar
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    a philosophical question

    Okay, I kind of feel like stirring the pot tonight, because this question has been gnawing on me. I understand if it feels inconsequential or off topic and if the thread disappears into oblivion...hehe

    BUT...people have accused QE of feeding off of stereotypes and promoting them. I think it was Rousseau or someone post Marx who suggested that cultural modification was a tool used by the ruling class or ruling culture to manipulate subcultures. So I wonder if shows like QE and BMB and Will and Grace are just packaging of queer ideas and stereotypes that are made palatable to the general population.

    The process of making queer shows and queer people icons of pop culture then becomes a form of domination, and in the end a big ole social defeat for the queer community and its attempt to be empowered and accepted for what it is, versus what is shown on TV.

    I just feel guilty as a female for pandering to stuff like this and viewing shows like QE as cool or progressive, when in fact part of me is patting myself on the back for being progressive. I wonder at the whole straight female obsession (or "faghag") trend could be a result of queer kitsch and like a whole new mental fashion trend.

    I admit that it's really cool that gay men are getting spots on TV and attention and acknowledgement from the population, and that stereotypes and sexual issues are being confronted ("I put the gay on you" is my favorite quote so far of the season!! yaya), and no one should feel guilty for being happy about that.

    As opposed to arguing about stereotypes, I just wanted to toss this idea out into the crowd and see if I'm the only person who feels a smidgen guilty or uneasy about the whole concept.

    I apologize if anything I said is altogether illogical or self negating. PLEASE correct me!! And I don't mean to criticize QE itself, but it might be nice to discuss what it means to us and society as a whole,

    Typing from underneath the desk by now
    -Erin

  2. #2
    All Species Welcome! tmtokill's Avatar
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    OK, girl I totally feel bad that your post has sat with no replies all day! I got your back!
    I think if anything this will help those narrow minds deal with gays a little better than they had before the whole QE explosion. And get people talking about gays in a more positive light. Maybe those people can finally see they are "real people" who can make us laugh, and give us advice on how to improve our lives no matter which gender(s) you chose for yourself. There are still more important things in this world to deal with than who sleeps with who, but yet people make such a huge deal out it being wrong or evil.
    I think that once someone's personal views cross the line into hatred or violence- there is something wrong and evil there. Whether you believe abortion is wrong, you shouldn't kill someone for trying to help someone that needed one regardless of the reason.
    This world can be cold and cruel to walk through all by yourself and if you can find someone that is good for you and good to you and you both respect one another what does it matter their religion, race, or gender, as long as that person makes them happy.
    When Queer as Folk first aired is was controversial because it showed us more than some wanted to see regarding gay lifestyles. And even gay rights groups dissed it, Queer Eye is pretty tame that the whole family can watch and I think it's a good thing that it is opening the door to conversations between families.
    So many gays are abandoned by their families because they can't deal with the choice their son or daughter made, instead of trying to be there for them. Many feel so alone they kill themselves. If this show can help a son and father have a conversation for once-then that's a good thing.
    But had it not been for Ellen and Will And Grace paving the way for the current gay themed shows- we wouldn't be enjoying QE as much. We'd be hiding the fact that we watch and enjoy it, like it was some guilty pleasure to be ashamed of. But now we can discuss it openly with co-workers and strangers.
    Yeah "The process of making queer shows and queer people icons of pop culture and in the end a big ole social defeat for the queer community." But it has to start somewhere!
    How many of these Queer guys are getting approached by str8 men and that are happy to see them and know who they are from tv, rather than be the same guys they would of beat up in high school for being gay.
    Some people may say that being gay is now cool, I think we're still too far away to say that. I don't think anyone with a sane mind would become gay just to be cool. But if loving gay men is wrong, I never want to be right!!!
    Last edited by tmtokill; 10-01-2003 at 12:22 AM.

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    I appreciate both previous authors of this thread for their thought proviking topic. I however, think you have OVER thought Queer EYE. I'd bet the Fab 5 aren't thinking what impact they are making on society as a whole...They are too busy counting up their money! Kudos for the Fab 5, and Queer Eye, Will and Grace et al...

    I have wonder what makes hetro women (including me) so attracted to gay men. Kyan is a hunka hunka burning love!

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    FORT Regular alixtheweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmsmcc
    They are too busy counting up their money!

    Kyan is a hunka hunka burning love!
    What money? You obviously have not been reading the posts about their contract closely.


    I do have to agree about Kyan though.

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    FORT Fogey eldee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elysive
    ..........BUT...people have accused QE of feeding off of stereotypes and promoting them. .........So I wonder if shows like QE and BMB and Will and Grace are just packaging of queer ideas and stereotypes that are made palatable to the general population..."

    >> In general, I believe there may be some stereotypes for the general audience to recognize and that might make it of more interest. However, I don't believe they are promoting one stereotype. i.e. BMB, Will is different than Jack, Ted is different from Carson.

    "......The process of making queer shows and queer people icons of pop culture then becomes a form of domination, and in the end a big ole social defeat for the queer community and its attempt to be empowered and accepted for what it is, versus what is shown on TV..."

    >>>Now, I understand the question. I don't think so and I definately hope not. Otherwise, I would boycott and write to the producers.

    "....I just feel guilty as a female for pandering to stuff like this and viewing shows like QE as cool or progressive, when in fact part of me is patting myself on the back for being progressive. I wonder at the whole straight female obsession (or "faghag") trend could be a result of queer kitsch and like a whole new mental fashion trend...."

    >>>I just enjoy the shows that are either interesting, or in these cases funny. If they weren't interesting or funny, then I wouldn't watch regardless if there were 50 gay men or lesbians. What would be the point?

    ".....As opposed to arguing about stereotypes, I just wanted to toss this idea out into the crowd and see if I'm the only person who feels a smidgen guilty or uneasy about the whole concept...."

    >>>No guilt. However, I didn't (and still don't) like the idea of the "big twist" on BMB.

    .....Typing from underneath the desk by now
    -Erin
    >>>Is it cramp under there or do you have your drinks, pillow, etc, comforts available?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmtokill
    This world can be cold and cruel to walk through all by yourself and if you can find someone that is good for you and good to you and you both respect one another what does it matter their religion, race, or gender, as long as that person makes them happy.
    Absolutely


    Interesting thoughts elysive

    Feel guilty for watching this show? Not at all. QE is a quality program featuring 5 talented, funny, loveable men. I don't know from philosophical or zocial... oy ve... I just know I really enjoy watching

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    TO ALEXTHEWEAVER, No,Alex, I have not read the posts about the Queer Eye contracts! I came on the board for the first time late last night, and replied to one thread. In a nutshell, what's the scoop on the Fab 5's contract?

  8. #8
    FORT Regular alixtheweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmsmcc
    TO ALEXTHEWEAVER, No,Alex, I have not read the posts about the Queer Eye contracts! I came on the board for the first time late last night, and replied to one thread. In a nutshell, what's the scoop on the Fab 5's contract?

    In a nutshell, they each get $3,000 per episode. In other words, peanuts.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by alixtheweaver
    In a nutshell, they each get $3,000 per episode. In other words, peanuts.

    No way! That's pretty shi**Y of Bravo.

  10. #10
    FORT Newbie Poodle's Avatar
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    ok, I might have a completely different view of this, but here it goes. It bothers me when people say that QEFTSG reinforces stereotypes, just because a few of the sailors are what most people would consider "effeminate" It is as if the critics are saying that gay men should act like straight me in order to go against that stereotype and prove... what? that they can fit in with straight men and that there is no difference between them?

    I like it that Carson and Jai are effeminate, but only because that seems like their real personalities, they are being themselves and they seem to be comfortable with themselves regardless of what others think. In my opinion it is just as bad to say that gay men should act more masculine than to criticize those who are naturally more effeminate. Gays are not all the same and should not have to act a certain way in order to be "acceptable".

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