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Thread: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #71
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;4050424;
    I think Tim is slightly off-base with this one, but not THAT far. I don't think Gretchen bullied anyone, but she DID clearly drive the bus. Tim is interpreting the situation too dramatically, and not really treating them like adults, who had every opportunity to speak up.

    The manipulation charge is a bit stranger. Did she assert herself out of proportion? Yes. But that's not even close to manipulation. The only person in the group who really seemed to unwillingly bend his will was Michael. The others, if they claim otherwise after the fact, are just trying to save face. AJ, for example, quite willingly adjusted his point of view. The man has a mouth, and presumably a brain, and nobody MADE him agree so easily to the plan which was presented. Overdramatizing a bunch of weak-willed willies, who let themselves be led, and calling it "manipulation" is kind of bull.

    And whatever you think of her decisions, Gretchen had some valid points talking to the judges. Kors in particular came off as a massive chucklehead, the way he steered everything directly into the usual Reality Show track of trying to force a group to call each other out, and Heidi didn't do herself any favors either, with the assist where a pretty justified (and pretty universal) declaration of who did the worst on the team was positioned as trying to scapegoat the guy with immunity instead of it being the simple truth. It was like on some level the judges were offended that THEIR CHOICE for last week's win couldn't possibly ACTUALLY be a crappy workman.

    And really, any panel which picks Casanova as best at ANYTHING needs to have their heads examined. Those pants were okay, but the top was STILL tragically bad.

    This season has been ridiculous. From the very first week when Gretchen won (note: even though I'm sort of defending her now, that doesn't change the fact that she's a boring designer overall).
    Well said as usual Krom. I'm fairly neutral on Gretchen and I think this week she's been overly criticized quite a bit by people here and by Tim who I usually love to pieces.

    It's strange this season how Tim and the judges rarely seem to agree. I'm almost always with Tim in his judgments of the designers garments and at odds with the judges.

  2. #72
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Is it possible that Tim was referring only to Gretchen's behavior on the runway?

    “I have a few words for Team Luxe. I fundamentally do not understand your behavior and demeanor and affect on the runway. I don’t get it. I don’t know why you allowed Gretchen to manipulate, control, and bully you. I don’t understand it.”
    I could make a case that Gretchen was manipulative and a bully on the runway.

  3. #73
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Kip;4050981;
    Is it possible that Tim was referring only to Gretchen's behavior on the runway?



    I could make a case that Gretchen was manipulative and a bully on the runway.
    How did she manipulate and bully the other designers on the runway? The other designers were free to say whatever just like AJ who didn't name Michael C. as the weak link because he, too, was a weak link.

    It seems that there's something going on with Tim this season. He mentioned in his vlog that he had a call time for 6:30 AM to meet at Parsons and then en route to Party Glitters. Yet although he arrived 15 minutes earlier, everyone was gone. When he got to Brooklyn, he mentioned the producers seemed surprised. I like Tim but I question his taste sometimes (I feel a bit old-fashioned) in his Bravo show and his distaste for leggings. Like mom.
    Last edited by watts; 08-28-2010 at 11:46 PM.

  4. #74
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie;4050659;
    I'll need to watch the entire thing from the beginning to see about the "bullying." But Tim does see more than we do. I also think he was trying to wake up the other designers that they were being sheep.
    I'm with Allie on this. Tim is all-seeing and all-knowing.
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  5. #75
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by watts;4050914;
    But I doubt that he was there with the camera crew when the team was deliberating about their collection. And I doubt that he had time to watch footages of what occured prior to the runway. So I think it was all assumption on his part.
    Tim Gunn said in his Vlogs on his Facebook page that this season was filmed in 30 days. He just doesn't float in leisurely and film 2 minutes and leaves. He states that the season 7 finale that he hosted with Nina had over 3 hours of film but you only see 45 edited minutes. The first challenge in season 8 was done in one day Tim was there the entire time. Even the designers (previous seasons) have mentioned that the runway and judges panel can take hours and Tim is there the entire time. He sees a lot that we don't see. I know that Gretchen is your favorite and you are defending her but be a little realistic that if this many posters, the designers and Tim Gunn are talking smack about Gretchen that there must be something there to talk smack about.
    Last edited by Bearcata; 08-29-2010 at 04:22 AM.
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by watts;4050965;
    I watched the episode and the first part where they were strategizing and there was no bullying going on (Tim said bullying). It was democratic although mostly Gretchen giving her ideas and everyone else concurring. There was no arguing or arm twisting. No one else gave ideas that ran against Gretchen's ideas. Where was the bullying that Tim refering to? It was an assumption that he formulated from what occured in the runway and the vibe that Gretchen was giving him.
    Wretchen took the leadership role and the others let her. There is some strategy to this because this way the leader has to take responsibility for the project and is the one who will be on the chopping block. You see this all the time on Top Chef and The Apprentice.

    BTW Michael C did try to throw some ideas but no one was listening to him and only listening to Wretchen. TPTB did show it and Michael C did do a little sidebar about it.

    Also it is very evident that there is clique forming within this season of winners vs losers and Wretchen is the head cheerleader of that group. You can bully by verbiage and not physically threaten anyone and that is what you have here.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by watts;4050598;
    Because the whole collection wasn't bad. Just the execution. Like Ivy's improperly proportioned look and AJ's shirt-dress. A lot of the pieces were good. The other team only had lace as a cohesive factor (it did not look like a collection at all, except for Casanova's and Michael D's did mesh). But between the 2 collections, team luxe did seem plain compared to the other. And Casanova's look gave that team the edge. Had that team lost April would have obviously gone home. She has horrible taste and dubious skillset.

    Also, after watching the show a 3rd time, it wasn't a dictatorship as a lot believe it to be. The direction was "guided" by Gretchen but everyone had creative output on the execution (like AJ had an idea how to do a "tailored" shirtdress and seemed thrilled about it). And no one was throwing anyone under the bus. It was just that the direction of the judges' inquisition (specifically Heidi) onto who should be eliminated pointed to a weak link (which was true). I thought Ivy was horrible yet a lot of issues with Gretchen in the past made her a target, leading people to gang up on her.
    Bad execution doesn't make for a bad collection. Interesting concept. I guess that means next time I go shopping if the seams aren't straight, or buttons are missing, or the hems aren't sewn on a "named" piece of clothing I buy at a high end store for a couple of hundred dollars that is exceptable because the design was good?

    Then why did the judges vote off Jason, after all he used staples and pins to put together his outfits?
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by watts;4050996;
    How did she manipulate and bully the other designers on the runway? The other designers were free to say whatever just like AJ who didn't name Michael C. as the weak link because he, too, was a weak link.

    It seems that there's something going on with Tim this season. He mentioned in his vlog that he had a call time for 6:30 AM to meet at Parsons and then en route to Party Glitters. Yet although he arrived 15 minutes earlier, everyone was gone. When he got to Brooklyn, he mentioned the producers seemed surprised. I like Tim but I question his taste sometimes (I feel a bit old-fashioned) in his Bravo show and his distaste for leggings. Like mom.
    Please explain.
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I still find it hard to believe that they kept Ivy, given that she did the entire horrendous outfit. Hers, at least, should have been good, given that she broke away from the group to create her own design.

    And I see Wretchen as a bully because no one dares to say anything against her. There's a reason for that.

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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Kip;4050981;
    Is it possible that Tim was referring only to Gretchen's behavior on the runway?



    I could make a case that Gretchen was manipulative and a bully on the runway.

    I finally saw the whole episode last night, when Lifetime re-ran it, and the impression I got was that Tim was specifically referring to what happened on the runway and not only in terms of what Gretchen did, but what the rest of Team Luxe did as well. While he does mention her by name, he says he does not understand why the rest of them let her bully and manipulate them, so he's essentially calling all of them cowards for not standing up for themselves, which isn't much better than being called a bully or a manipulator. In fact, in some ways, it's worse, since a bully or manipulator at least is proactive, while a coward simply allows things he/she knows to be wrong to happen. The only person toward whom Tim showed some sympathy was A. J., and A.J. was the only one who stuck to the pre-review team agreement--suggested by Gretchen--that they not turn on each other and name someone as the person who should go. True, A.J. named himself, but that's different than jumping on the "we hate Mike" bandwagon started by Gretchen herself. As Heidi pointed out, Mike had the winning design the week before (though I found that a questionable decision myself), so the judges had not always found him lacking in basic skills in the past (a subtle way of pointing out that Team Luxe was also criticizing the judges' taste by going on about Mike's lack of ability), and besides, it was rather gutless to go after someone they knew couldn't be eliminated. If they really didn't want to turn on one another, they should have just said that it would have to be the judges' call which of them was the weakest or, like A.J., admit to their own mistakes and let the judges take it from there.

    I suspect Tim, like the judges, was also annoyed by Gretchen's quick about face on the runway. By the end of the critique, I got the impression Gretchen would have said anything she had to in order to save herself.

    On a brighter note, I couldn't believe Casanova came up with what he did. While I could never wear that outfit, it was striking and beautifully made. Casanova was also very gracious on the runway and backstage about his win, complimenting Peach on the runway and saying it was everybody's win backstage. It was the first time I'd ever liked him or something he designed (even if it was obviously not something most women could ever wear). Granted, I didn't like his little meltdown that upset the rest of the team, but at least he pulled himself together with his model's help.

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