+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 49

Thread: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #31
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    17,764

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon;3706084;
    So Johnny told a lie. Big whoop. If he had said: "Tim Gunn told me my dress looked like crap, so I felt the pressure and decided to make a new one." he would still have been blamed for thinking up excuses. You don't win by telling the truth, but a little white lie can get you places.
    Actually, it IS a big whoop on this show. Lying is a staple of most other reality shows, but it has no place on this one. PR has become such a long-lasting show mostly because of its reputation for integrity. It's supposed to be an honest competition, and the designers are expected to stand behind their work without whining.

    It was a big deal when Keith had those design cheat books in his room in S3. It was a big deal that Kenley kept being disrespectful to the judges on the runway. A designer telling a complete lie to the judges is the biggest deal of all, especially when these things can be so easily checked on video.

    Santino is the only other person I can think of who got away with lying through his teeth, during the Makeover challenge. And that's only because Kara was too beaten up and drained to call him out while she stood there in the tattered, shoddy catsuit he designed for her. If she had spoken up to the judges instead of standing there in a daze, I wonder if Santino might have gone home instead of Nick that night.

    If blatant lying becomes a common thing on this show, I'll stop watching it. Because that will mean that PR has become just another crappy reality show like the rest.
    "Whatever you are, be a good one." Abraham Lincoln
    What is an "MFWalkoff?"

  2. #32
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Edge of the Beltway
    Posts
    16,232

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon;3706084;
    Ooooh this was incredibly depressing.

    Johnny's dress was a mess, he should have gone with his first dress, at least he did something with the possibilities of paper-as-fabric. That being said, he got thrown under a bus by Nicolas.

    This is depressing because it made Nicolas AND Tim look like petty little rats.

    Most of the stories spun by the designers are last minute attempts at giving their designs depth. It's the whole spiel of conjuring up a story that sounds like it was the real motivation behind a design.

    It's drawing a cube and afterwards thinking up a reason why you drew the cube, explaining that it's an analogy for the way people think in boxes, that it's a model of a three dimensional universe and is thus a comment on the depth of the human mind and persona. You can place a lot of meaning in something simple, but it's easier to just think it up AFTER the fact.

    So Johnny told a lie. Big whoop. If he had said: "Tim Gunn told me my dress looked like crap, so I felt the pressure and decided to make a new one." he would still have been blamed for thinking up excuses. You don't win by telling the truth, but a little white lie can get you places.

    Nicolas threw him under the bus. He thought that he could score a bunch of points by being a tattle tale. Combined with his spiteful behaviour throughout the competition, it just shows what kind of a person he is. Mean-spirited and vicious.

    Tim coming in and then commenting on Johnny telling a lie, acting as if it was the worst thing someone could do, wasn't befitting of his role as mentor. Especially since it was his criticism that prompted Johnny to do a last minute change on his design. I doubt Tim would have been pleased if Johnny had pointed him out as the reason of his last minute change, which of course would have been the truth.
    I have to disagree with you on this point. Nicolas is a wanna be wit, a wanna be sharp tongued shrew. He says the words but really doesn't have the bitchiness nature to really make it sound nasty. He also didn't throw Jonny under the bus, he just rolled his eyes when Jonny was telling the judges his "story" and Heidi simply asked him if they was something else besides what Jonny told them.

    Sidebar: Every time I see Nicolas and Gordana together they look like long lost twins.
    Last edited by Bearcata; 09-19-2009 at 01:58 PM.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  3. #33
    Kao
    Kao is offline
    Donyale y Dali: OTP Kao's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,377

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I think Tim was disgusted by the fact that he didn't tell the lie once, he told it numerous times (also twisting Tim's words for good measure). Some people have pet peeves and for Tim, I think that lying is one of them. Not only did I get the impression he was mad, he also seemed kind of hurt as well.


    I think Johnny was a little early in the recovery days to be on this show; he should have waited another year and worked on building up his coping mechanisms. When you're an ex-addict it's very easy to fall back into past patterns of bad behavior even if you aren't using. Addicts tend to lie. They lie to others to get money, they lie to get drugs, they lie about their drug usage, they lie to get out of trouble. Most of all, they lie and create excuses to THEMSELVES...about this being "just one hit" "the last hit" "it's my birthday" etc. And even though you might be clean, you still have to find new ways to cope with different situations instead of falling back on lying, excuse making and other junkie behavior in addition to not falling off the wagon. I don't think Johnny gave himself enough time to build up more positive coping mechansims; feeling cornered, he lasped and fell back into old patterns.

    That's why I can forgive his behaviour a little more than Nicholas. The sheer schadenfreude he was getting out of Johnny's failure was...just disgusting, if you ask me. He positioned himself so he could hear exactly what Tim was saying to Johnny, and what Johnny said to his model. He then proceeded to take it upon himself to go around the room and tell the other designers (who really weren't paying attention since they were, you know, WORKING) exactly what went down, and he went into the girl's space later that evening and talked about it AGAIN. Then, not happy with that, he proceeded to tell the judges exactly what Tim said to Johnny about the dress to save himself (which probably tilted the scales in his favor since there's a reason why Tim doesn't discuss his opinions with them, or sits on the judging panel), savoring every word that dripped out of his sharp, vicious mouth. Vile.

    It would have been interesting to see if Tim had said anything to the judges during deliberation about Johnny's lying.
    From what I understand he's not allowed, since whatever he says can effectively bias the judges decision since he works so closely with the designers and is their mentor. The only time he has ever sat on the judges panel was during the finale show when Jennifer Lopez didn't show up. Bravo figured it would be okay because it was the Bryant Park show with the final 3 and he was with them during the whole journey.

    Nicholas knew this, which is why he used it to his advantage when he told the judges exactly what Tim said. It also explains why Tim was so frustrated.
    Last edited by Kao; 09-19-2009 at 02:54 PM.

  4. #34
    FORT Regular ladygreco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    144

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    [QUOTE=MFWalkoff;3706148
    Santino is the only other person I can think of who got away with lying through his teeth, during the Makeover challenge. And that's only because Kara was too beaten up and drained to call him out while she stood there in the tattered, shoddy catsuit he designed for her. If she had spoken up to the judges instead of standing there in a daze, I wonder if Santino might have gone home instead of Nick that night.

    If blatant lying becomes a common thing on this show, I'll stop watching it. Because that will mean that PR has become just another crappy reality show like the rest.[/QUOTE]


    I remember that episode in Season 2 with Santino and Kara. I too thought that Santino, while very talented, should have gone home instead of Nick Verreos, who is and has proven since the show to be an exceptionally talented designer.

  5. #35
    FORT Regular
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    61

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by rebotco;3706036;
    I was shocked that Tim said ANYthing about Johnny to the other designers after Johnny was gone.

    It would have been interesting to see if Tim had said anything to the judges during deliberation about Johnny's lying.
    To the best of my knowledge, Tim does not confer with the judges during the deliberations. He functioned once as a judge only because it was an emergency. I think that is good, because he knows too much about the contestants personal lives to be a fair judge. And on the show that follows PR with the models, one of the models said that another model had gone after Logan because he was the only straight single designer there. Excuse me!! Logan straight? That certainly not the vibe he puts out. What's the story here and has my gaydar finally shorted out?

  6. #36
    GO BUCKEYES! hutchlover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Just moved to Chicago
    Posts
    1,141

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Socks, in the first episode he clamed he was straight. And he's not the only straight one, though Epperson is married.

  7. #37
    Living Vicariously via RT Fierce Critter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    774

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I hate a liar more than I hate a tattle-tale or a nitpicker.

    A liar (Johnny) is creating a falsehood. A tattle-tale (Nick) makes the falsehood known. A nitpicker (Tim) critiques the falsehood.

    Without the liar, the other two don't have anything to feed on.

  8. #38
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Edge of the Beltway
    Posts
    16,232

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Fierce Critter;3707223;
    I hate a liar more than I hate a tattle-tale or a nitpicker.

    A liar (Johnny) is creating a falsehood. A tattle-tale (Nick) makes the falsehood known. A nitpicker (Tim) critiques the falsehood.

    Without the liar, the other two don't have anything to feed on.
    I guess you must hate all journalists and lawyers and police officers then.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  9. #39
    Living Vicariously via RT Fierce Critter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    774

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata;3707238;
    I guess you must hate all journalists and lawyers and police officers then.
    I was confused by your post for a minute, couldn't figure out how you got that I thought journalists, lawyers and police officers were liars...

    But then I realized you put improper emphasis on the way I worded my post.

    I don't really have a strong problem with tattle-tales or nitpickers for the most part. They may make me uncomfortable, sometimes may even be a little seedy themselves or snarky. But they aren't the ones planting the original seed of trouble.
    Last edited by Fierce Critter; 09-20-2009 at 11:34 PM.

  10. #40
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,177

    Re: 9/17 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by hutchlover;3706123;
    You know Cairon, as much as I love Tim, he really looked bad this episode.

    1) There was no reason to call Johnny out as a liar in front of the other designers while he wasn't there to defend himself!
    The only thing I can say here was that IMHO Tim was gobsmacked that Johnny would flat out bold face lie in front of the judges and so much so he was hurt to even try and say anything to Johnny - at least at that time. I think he wanted Johnny to succeed in spite of his adversity (I wanted him to as well), and given the lie, that's what made it hurt.

    Now, I hope that he politely confronted Johnny after he calmed down and asked why make such a noticeable lie because then he could find out if it was a relapse from the pressure of the contest or just lying to try and gain a sympathy vote of sorts. This way, if he found out that Johnny was indeed relapsing Tim could get the help he needed - doubly given that Tim knew Johnny was a recovering alcoholic.

    2) It's not like he was hiding books beneath his mattress or anything?!
    Yes, and no: yes because I think hiding design books is in poor taste (plus shows lack of creativity to begin with - I'd question their skills anyway if they resort to cheating).

    I'd say no however, because this wasn't a small lie - Newsprint itself does not smear - it becomes more translucent and will very quickly separate if it becomes wet. (Now, if he said it was dyed and then this happened, then I apologize).

    Plus, there is no reason to iron paper - unless it was on a VERY LOW setting, it'd catch on fire... unless you used steam, which of course, uese water. Even if it didn't catch on fire - it would quickly scorch if it's ironed too long.

    3) Many times Tim's idea of what he thinks the judges will like is WRONG!. Just look at Gordana this episode!
    I agree - especially since Gordana I felt shouldn't have been in the bottom three given that she didn't even use muslin as a base on her dress - making it a more difficult dress to accomplish.

    That said - it's up to the designer to choose for himself/herself if the design should change or not. Johnny chose to - instead of taking a chance and continuing with it anyway (I didn't think it was too bad, but needed tweaks here and there), he gave up and instead went for the dress that turned out. Plus - I felt that his and Nicolas' dresses looked cheap - most of the paper dresses I could see - if fabric - actually sell for quite a bit of money. Heck, even paper, I could see them selling for money like the classic dresses.

    And many, many a time a designer has stood on the runway and made excuses for why they re-did their dress. Uh, Mitchell????? (And wouldn't his excuses be a little white lie as well?)
    You'll have to explain to me what white lies Mitchell told, because from what I remember, he was pretty direct as to why he messed up the shorts for example in the maternity challenge.

    That said - as I mentioned above - Johnny's "little white lie" actually is quite a big lie given the nature of newsprint to begin with as well as the half hearted attempt. If he had really strived and worked hard on his dress - I feel that he would've ended up staying over Nicholas - who, while I feel the dress design was actually uglier than Johnny's - was better made.

    Not to mention that Tim's reaction was just a tad over-the-top.
    I'd personally expect nothing less given what was said and done. Plus, Tim gives these guys one-on-one time and helped Johnny get over his stress early on in the series, so I could see him being really hurt and upset at what happened.

    Plus - we all react differently to things. Now, if he pulled a Tyra yelling at Tiffany in response to Johnny's lie, then I'd say it was OTT.

    And for Tim NOT to call out Nicklaus for his behavior that was just a rung higher (meaning not quite as bad) than Kenley's laughing at Daniel & Joe on the runway. No one asked Nicklaus for his opinion and the judges were not speaking to him. Jerkwad.
    Not true - Heidi asked why Nicholas was shaking his head no, and he responded. That said - he didn't and shouldn't have shook his head: I do think that it might've affected his being in the bottom two instead of bottom three (meaning Gordana switching with him). While Gordana's dress was better, we have seen these judges in the past let oddball designs beat gorgous, but "safe" dresses, which Gordana's was in their opinion).

    Now, I don't know if Tim is actually at the runway when they judge and critique - but given that he is close to the designers, I feel that he couldn't have called out Nicholas for fear of "tampering" the results. That said, I have a feeling that Tim did call out Nicholas for his behavior; however, it was not put in the episode.

    As much as Johnny was annoying, I really feel for him. I hope he didn't relapse or anything. (There was a red-carpet event & showing of this episode in NY on Wednesday and only Johnny didn't show up.)
    There are many reasons why Johnny couldn't show up - this isn't out there, even with contracts - so I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt as far as a no-show at the event.

    That said - I do wish him the best: he has some good ideas and if he can focus on them and stand by them, he could actually be a really good designer.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.