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Thread: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

  1. #31
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata View Post
    This is where I would have loved to hear Tim Gunn's comments.
    Me too. The thing with Tim is that we'll never hear them because he's too classy to denigrate someone like that in public. In private though? Possibly and I'd love to be a fly on the wall! He was so classy, even when scolding Ven. I just adore him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden
    Oh, yeah, and depending on one's height, a 14 might not be plus size at all. If you're tall enough, you could be a perfectly acceptable, normal weight for your height and still be a 14.
    I'm 5'10" and when I'm at 175lbs (which is right on the border of a healthy weight), I wear a size 12 and look a lot smaller than that. I worked with a gal who was 6'2" and looked like a bean pole - her hipbones stuck out, she was fairly flat-chested and had very little body fat - and she wore a size 16.

    I got a phone call right around 9PM and ended up missing the episode up to the runway show. I'm watching it now and almost have to mute Ven because I'm so disgusted by him. The little snicker when he tells Tim that his client is probably a size 14? Well, there's a word I want to use, but we're PG-13 around here. Plus, like we've all talked about - GLASS HOUSES!

    It's amazing how a challenge like this can change your opinions about people. I was really impressed with Gunnar, Elena and Fabio and, really most of the other designers too. They all seemed to embrace the spirit of the challenge. Everyone but Ven seemed to understand that being a designer is a lot less about designing for size 0 models and more about designing for the average woman. Very few designers do couture lines. You make your money on ready to wear.....and most of the women doing the wearing are a helluva lot bigger than a size 0.

    I really felt for Nathan this week. Yes, he did let his client take over too much, but at least he was trying to please her. Ven is a beast. I just wanted to give his poor client a big hug. Creep.

    I know a lot of people don't like Elena, but I do. I think she actually IS a bit misunderstood. Some people just don't have a filter and don't realize how they sound. Like when she made that comment about Gunnar's garment being so different from what he normally does and then calling it chic. I don't think she realized it came out like a back-handed compliment and she laughed and sad she didn't mean to sound mean....and he seemed to realize it too. Maybe this show will help her learn how to communicate better with people. I think she's very talented and would like to see more of what she can do.
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  2. #32
    Bloomin' FoRT Fanatic! ness's Avatar
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    Ven was a complete, total and utter $--t to Terri. God bless Heidi for telling him where to go and how to get there. If there were any women out there who could and would afford his clothes, I hope they saw this epi and/or will hear about it, and boycott his ass. I never thought I'd ever say this, but for ONCE I agreed with Elena on something: I lost respect for him (no "kind of"; I just lost it altogether!). BTW, true friends can be hard to find, and Terri has a real jewel in Theo.

    Alicia surprised me. I loved that dress on Martina, and I loved that Alicia went out of HER comfort zone in order to accommodate her CLIENT and make HER feel comfortable. I also LOVE that Ven dissed Alicia's efforts, but it was HIM that wound up on the grill (IIRC, and I hope I DO!)!

    Fabio rocked it out with Ko-Rely! She really is a beautiful woman (they ALL were, for that matter!), but you sure couldn't tell it with her normal "before" dressing. Hell, I'M not normally a dress-wearer, and I would TOTALLY wear that dress. And a big thumbs-up to Ko-Rely for having the guts to get her hair whacked off like that. It absolutely worked on her, and she looked fantastic! Have to agree with the judges about the belt, though. It looked like a left-of-center afterthought. Other than that, really nice!

    I liked Gunner's outfit for Kim. I DO wish the neckline had been a wee tad bit lower, too, but it looked good on her (LOVED the way he did the bottom half!), she loved it, and she stomped the living daylights out of the runway in it! What more could any designer possibly ask for?

    Ven can go straight to the Devil, and I hope he does!
    Last edited by ness; 08-24-2012 at 03:15 AM.
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  3. #33
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    I really wish they had kept the bottom 3 on the runway while they talked to the top 3. Ven, in particular, needed to see hear the judges discuss the work of designers who actually know how to work with a client and make them happy.
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  4. #34
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    For a second I thought they would just go ahead and get rid of Ven. If you cannot design for regular people it is pointless for him to be there. But then I thought he might be the Wendy Pepper of the finale.

    My guess is that Terri is 30 years old by the way. And I could have went younger if they had not told me she has four kids.
    You can do it!

  5. #35
    Never too old to Twinkle! AZChristian's Avatar
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    Ven is saying on Twitter that he doesn't think clients were randomly assigned. He feels he was given this particular plus-sized, "already had a bad attitude before she got there" client in order to break him down. And he says he was edited badly.

    I think he needs to own the fact that he behaved badly, no matter what the challenges were. As is often said here at FoRT, they can't edit you to say things that you didn't say. And the fact that he kept mentioning that the belt was "too small" was really bad. He didn't have to SAY anything. He had both feet in his mouth, and STILL managed to talk.

    Very disappointed.

  6. #36
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    There were a million ways that Ven could have phrased that belt comment: "I couldn't find an appropriate belt for the outfit" or "I couldn't find a belt I liked" or "I couldn't find a belt that I thought would suit you." Any of those would still get across the idea that he couldn't find a belt that would have worked without insulting his client and making her cry. And if he really needed a belt so badly, couldn't he have manufactured a substitute? Did he have no material left that he couldn't make a cloth belt/sash that would have worked?

    I really wish the next time that they did a "real woman" challenge that they'd secretly videotape the client consultations and show them to the judges and have that included in the evaluation of who goes home. If the idea is that designers have to be able to deal with clients of all sorts of shapes and sizes, then they need to look at how they deal with those clients as part of the challenge. It's still maddening to me that Jeffrey treated his plus size model mom so terribly and still ended up winning the season. It should have mattered that he was so disrespectful and just downright dismissive of his client.

    Oh, and it's too true that most designers aren't going to make a living strictly on couture--look at how many well known designers now do lines for places like Kohl's and Target. You want to succeed in a big way, you look to the mass market--and you don't act like the people who want to buy those lines are beneath you. I know Mizrahi has a reputation for being difficult too, but when he came out with his Target line--one of the first big name designers to go that route--he went around to state fairs in a big touring bus and did on the spot make-overs with women using his new line. He also did not avoid potential make-overs because the woman was larger. In fact, when he asked whether he was a little embarrassed doing the make-overs and having to work with "real" women, he said that the first people who believed in him and encouraged him to think it was okay for him to want to be a fashion designer were his mother and grandmother's friends who had him designing things for him even when he was quite young. And, in his words, many of them were saftig women--so he felt he was, in a way, paying them back for their faith in him when everyone else was laughing at him for being a teenage boy who wanted to be a fashion designer, by making clothes "real" women could wear and helping them see that they could look good in styles they might not otherwise consider.
    Kip and cstewart31 like this.

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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    As someone who is size 14 (5'8", 157 pounds), I was stunned to hear Ven say that I was plus size. Around here, I can buy clothes in just about any store...heck, even in Fashion Bug (which carries plus size clothes), I can shop on the other side of the store. I'm not typically a violent person but I could have slapped him myself.

    And my opinions of Elena and Gunnar went way up last night. They were marvelous with their clients. And I was bummed that Alicia was only safe...I thought it would have been nice to recognize her work, considering how far outside her comfort zone she went (and the dress looked nice, too).
    cubsfan55 likes this.

  8. #38
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    I believe it was Ven who made the sexist remark about men being better designers. But maybe I'm remembering it that way, because he made me so angry this episode.
    No - no faulty memory: It was Ven. Besides the other men would not say that because they respect women (yes, I'm also talking about the gay designers too).


    I also agree that it's beyond insulting that most women I know would much rather shop for clothes than men and probably buy more clothes than men, but guys can walk in, get the inseam and waist size they want, whereas women have to deal with sizes, which are a particular problem with pants. Not to mention the fact that SMLXL seem to mean entirely different things to different manufacturers. At this very moment, I have every size from S to XL in my closet in terms of tops and sweaters and they all fit. I've worn XL t-shirts under S cardigans. Go figure that one out.
    I agree - I am a reasonable weight for my height (a little heavier but I have built more muscle than fat - needed to), and some shirts I wear are either medium or large on a unisex T and large or XL for a woman's shirt - here because of the fit at the chest.

    Ven isn't exactly tiny himself. He has a lot of nerve pointing out anyone else's weight or size. How would he feel if there were a menswear challenge and he was the model who was criticized by his designer for not looking like a cast member of Magic Mike?
    He'd probably be delusional enough to say that the designer is a complete idiot like he never is with women and probably be a turkey about it.

  9. #39
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by AZChristian View Post
    Ven is saying on Twitter that he doesn't think clients were randomly assigned. He feels he was given this particular plus-sized, "already had a bad attitude before she got there" client in order to break him down. And he says he was edited badly.
    Doesn't matter if they're randomly assigned or not - you have to, as the one young lady on "Kid Nation" said - DEAL WITH IT. (no, I didn't think she was a lady then but she behaved better than Ven last night).

    I think he needs to own the fact that he behaved badly, no matter what the challenges were. As is often said here at FoRT, they can't edit you to say things that you didn't say. And the fact that he kept mentioning that the belt was "too small" was really bad. He didn't have to SAY anything. He had both feet in his mouth, and STILL managed to talk.

    Very disappointed.
    Yes, and that is scary - one thing that Gretchen (I have to say her name this one time Critical... sorry) at least did would admit, even if half-heartedly, her mistakes when being this way.

    Also Tilden - regarding Mizrahi, there is a difference between being difficult and being an outright jerk from a sheep feedlot (Ven). Difficult can be communication issues, having an idea that actually will look better on the client but the client is being stubborn so HE's seen as difficult by said person, etc.
    Last edited by jadewarlock; 08-24-2012 at 10:02 AM.

  10. #40
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    Re: 8/23 Show Discussion Thread **West Coast Spoilers**

    You all have said it all...I have nothing more to add in my disgust at Ven. I think he has suffered the fastest free fall in PR history
    cubsfan55 likes this.

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