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Thread: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

  1. #81
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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    I don't care at all for the sniping about Michael C. Granted, we are only seeing an edited version, but these people are saying these things and their voices aren't dubbed. The judges are judges because they know good design and well made clothes. Apparently, they think he has the goods. Whatever caused this outbreak of hostility toward him will probably remain unknown to us, but jealously seems to be the principal motivator. They also sense a weakness in him and jackals always attack the weakest member. When one person has an issue with someone and voices it on camera, that is one thing. But, when a group gets together and gangs up on one member, that is quite another. Regardless of what Michael C. may or may not have done, the mob mentality and small mindedness of the "Gretchen Group" makes them seem small and petty. I say thumbs down to them and thumbs up to Michael, who has, so far, shown grace and dignity under fire.

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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by ibot2much;4055209;
    I thought you may have had access to other quotes as we got from Peach. As you said, the continuing saga/editing should be interesting.
    And hopefully they would decide on showing a reunion show so we can closure on some issues that would be left unanswered when the season wraps up.

    Someone needs to get the scoop from AJ, and see if he can confirm what Peach has said about Michael C. and what really is the reason behind the d-bag comment. And the other contestants who have gone, so far, McKell, Jason, Nicholas haven't been there that long, and Kristen seemed too timid to tell; so only AJ and Peach have been vocal about the issues with Michael C. We need to wait for the next designer let go to get more scoop. And there's still this future story where Michael C. accuses someone (seemingly Valerie from the previews) of stealing his skirt idea(?). So controversy seem to follow him around.
    Last edited by watts; 09-05-2010 at 08:41 PM.

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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by ibot2much;4055204;
    I have not seen any one else's interview in which they commented on MC's issue. The first I read was the quote from Peach. Do you have other things we can read?
    Kristin also had some things to say about him as well on her blog. During the hat challenge she made a remark about her hat looking like a certain part of the female anatomy and he was all like "And how do you know what THAT looks like?" with a leer. She was NOT amused (as she thought he was inferring that she was a lesbian) but to be fair, she did say that other than that incident she had no personal problems with Michael C, and that in her opinion the bulk of the criticism towards him is because he's more of a draper and freeform with his designs while others (who are more technical) have problems with that approach.

    Because of contractual obligations she has to be pretty careful about what she says on her blog but she was able to hint that:

    1. There's some validity to some issues that the others had with him that she couldn't discuss at this point.

    2. We haven't seen anything yet in terms of nastiness. The animosity is about to get a whole lot worse between Michael and some of the others; one in particular she could not name but only said that this individual should "own her bitchery, as she is not a nice person."

    3. If the viewing audience doesn't understand why most of the contestants have issues with him, it's because the editors aren't doing their job (ie: most of the stuff is being left on the cutting room floor in exchange for a more sympathetic spin).


    What to think about all of this? I don't know...but I've seen 3 former contestants so far dance around the fact that there's a lot more to what we're seeing, and that someone is being painted with a lot nicer brush than they deserve. Personally, I find that unfair and dishonest to the viewing audience. Yes, Gretchen and Ivy give us loads of footage of HS behavior, but if someone is provoking a negative response of this magnitude I would at least like to know WHY.

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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Kao;4055322;
    Kristin also had some things to say about him as well on her blog. During the hat challenge she made a remark about her hat looking like a certain part of the female anatomy and he was all like "And how do you know what THAT looks like?" with a leer. She was NOT amused (as she thought he was inferring that she was a lesbian) but to be fair, she did say that other than that incident she had no personal problems with Michael C, and that in her opinion the bulk of the criticism towards him is because he's more of a draper and freeform with his designs while others (who are more technical) have problems with that approach.

    Because of contractual obligations she has to be pretty careful about what she says on her blog but she was able to hint that:

    1. There's some validity to some issues that the others had with him that she couldn't discuss at this point.

    2. We haven't seen anything yet in terms of nastiness. The animosity is about to get a whole lot worse between Michael and some of the others; one in particular she could not name but only said that this individual should "own her bitchery, as she is not a nice person."
    3. If the viewing audience doesn't understand why most of the contestants have issues with him, it's because the editors aren't doing their job (ie: most of the stuff is being left on the cutting room floor in exchange for a more sympathetic spin).


    What to think about all of this? I don't know...but I've seen 3 former contestants so far dance around the fact that there's a lot more to what we're seeing, and that someone is being painted with a lot nicer brush than they deserve. Personally, I find that unfair and dishonest to the viewing audience. Yes, Gretchen and Ivy give us loads of footage of HS behavior, but if someone is provoking a negative response of this magnitude I would at least like to know WHY.
    Thanks for this tidbit. The woman that Michael C. was accusing of stealing his idea/s had dark hair. I thought I saw bangs so I initially thought Valerie. But it could be Ivy since she had a sharp-tongue.

    On second thought, it could be a male contestant with bangs... like Mondo.

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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Even more interesting, the aufed designers also took part in the bridesmaid challenge. Kristin's model went from a size 30 to a size four so she had a lot of fabric to work with, and she made a beautiful dress that got more buttons than Ivy, Valerie and a couple others combined so she felt good. When her model found out that she wouldn't be on television (because Kristin was an auffed contestant) she decided not to show up to the public show at the last minute, and a PA had to fill in for her.

    It's a shame that we won't get to see the other designs. And I hope Kristin doesn't get a muzzle slapped on her because my god, this is some juicy juicy stuff!

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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Cairon;4055143;
    Interesting about Peach... it reveals the editing process.

    BUT... if Michael C really was such a hard-ass or wanted to be seen as such... why all those tears? Why the timid reactions on the runway and after the runway?

    I'm talking timid, not sucking up. I haven't seen Michael suck up to the judges, not in any shape or way that is out of place, or any different from the rest of the group. Casanova described him as humble.
    That's what has me puzzled, too. That guy is a darn good actor if he really is such a horrible person. In a way it kind of reminds me of Jake from The Bachelor. He had people (including me) fooled all season thinking he was this smooth, charming guy who just wanted to find love. It wasn't until after the cameras stopped rolling and Vienna ran to the tabloids that we found what a jerk he really was.

    That does remind me, though. Jake admitted after the show was all over that he had only wanted the publicity. By then, of course, he had gotten exactly that. So how does Michael telling people before the show ever started that he wants publicity help his case? Didn't he think that the contestants would tell on him? Or did he strike some sort of devil's bargain with the producers? "I'll agree to give you a juicy storyline by playing the helpless victim if you'll let me stick around long enough to get what I want." Somehow this whole thing just does not seem plausible to me.

    And if he does want publicity, then he's going about it all wrong. I mean, honestly. Based on the image you see portrayed, would you watch a follow-up show called "On the Road with Michael C"? Or how about "Michael C's Fashion Challenge" (or whatever Tim Gunn's show on Bravo was called)? Fashion is all about authority, about the gods from on high telling ordinary women what they're supposed to look like. MC does not project any authority whatsoever. And if he thought that he would be portrayed the other way, as a crude sexist, how would that have helped his cause, either?

    If Michael C really is a monster, they've managed to hide it extremely well, but I don't get why. Because if Michael C is so much worse than Wretchen, it would make a lot more sense to make it a season with one really obvious villain, instead of making it a season with every other designer being a villain. You want the audience to root for your participants, not hate the majority of the group. As it stands now you have an extremely unlikeable cast of characters who keep picking on a single member of the group, that alienates me as a viewer because I don't want to see any of these people win. As a viewer I want to see someone who deserves to win.

    I get that you need drama, but it strikes me as really strange that they're doing it this way.
    Totally agree. Right now you have a WWE-style pile up, and other than wrestling fans, who likes that? Reality TV fans tend to want a clear villain and a clear hero; that's why these shows are edited to portray people as "characters".

    And not only that, but Tim Gunn chimed in and confirmed that Wretchen was the queen bee of the bullying and that everybody threw Michael C under the buss.
    Yes, wasn't it last week that somebody here said Gunn had said in his blog that there was a lot to Wretchen that you weren't seeing, and that justified his tirade?




    [snip]

    If Michael C really is that obnoxious it would have been too tempting an opportunity for the producers to have this shine through.
    That was my first thought, too, but maybe the producers thought women being catty to a man would draw in more viewers?


    As it stands now there's no solid evidence. And with the case being as it is, everything that designers tell us through interviews after the fact will seem like them continuing their bullying behaviour. I want to take her word for it, but at the same time I need to keep in mind that this is the first, and right now the only sign, that Michael is somehow responsible for how the others are treating him.
    Until the show ends and everybody runs to the tabloids, I'm going to withhold judgment on anybody.
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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by AZChristian;4055120;
    Having not been in the workroom, none of us can be 100% sure of what's actually happening. However . . .

    If I'm in an environment (and I have been) where a colleague is making crude sexually offensive comments and uses language that is inappropriate in a public area, my complaints about that person are about the comments and language.

    I worked in a tech support area where we were confined to our workstations by the nature of what we did. The man behind me, after each phone call, would declare out loud for all to hear, "What a f*****g loser!" (referring to his customers). Between calls he would tell jokes and make extremely inappropriate comments about any woman who walked by. (He, by the way, was 300+ pounds and not terribly familiar with the basic concepts of hygiene. But all these women supposedly wanted him and would be privileged if he were willing to . . . ) Even with all that, the guy knew tech support, and was far more skilled than I in that area.

    But when it got to be too much to listen to him for 40 hours a week and I decided to speak with the manager about it, I did not go in there and say, "Alec doesn't know anything about tech support." I said that he was using language and sexual references that were against company policy and that it was creating a hostile work environment.

    So how come none of the designers are complaining about Michael C's other reported behaviors? When he walks into the room after a win, why isn't anyone saying, "Your design was okay, but it's hard for us to be happy for you because we can't get past your habits of sexual innuendos and foul language." They're just saying, "He doesn't know about design, construction, etc." The judges - all experts in their field - don't have a problem with his technical skills.

    I just don't get it. Why not address the actual problem - if there is one.
    Because the producers have edited their complaints out? The only way I can make sense of this muddle is to posit the following:

    As I said, a WWE-style pile-on ensued this season. MC is being obnoxious and the other contestants are trashing him in return. This looks horrible, so the producers decide they need to do some hacking to the film and come up with one villain and one hero, per the usual reality tv plotline. Whom to pick? Yeah, MC might be a draw, but the more I think about it, the more I don't agree. A crude, Archie-Bunker-style man on a fashion show? That just doesn't fit the vibe. Everybody knows, though, (and here I'm being bitterly sarcastic), that women are supposed to be bitchy, especially women in fashion. Devil Wears Prada, anyone? Wah lah. You have your villains. The question remains: is MC faking the tears? If so, is it due to how own whim or that of the producers?
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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Kao;4055335;
    Even more interesting, the aufed designers also took part in the bridesmaid challenge. Kristin's model went from a size 30 to a size four so she had a lot of fabric to work with, and she made a beautiful dress that got more buttons than Ivy, Valerie and a couple others combined so she felt good. When her model found out that she wouldn't be on television (because Kristin was an auffed contestant) she decided not to show up to the public show at the last minute, and a PA had to fill in for her.

    It's a shame that we won't get to see the other designs. And I hope Kristin doesn't get a muzzle slapped on her because my god, this is some juicy juicy stuff!
    Thank you for the link (I bookmarked it). Kristin's so funny. I understand that the reason the other contestants previously eliminated were included in the challenge was to keep the show's outcome a secret because the whole affair was a public event. And so only the participating bridesmaids were privy to which designer was still in. I think that Michael C.'s true colors would be revealed in time because of all the future drama she hinted at.

    PS I wish I could see those eliminated contestants' dresses, too. Perhaps, in an added feature to the DVD? So I can see what she was saying about her bridesmaid, too.
    Last edited by watts; 09-05-2010 at 10:20 PM.

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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    With the exception of Peach, Mondo and a few others there's loads of douchetastic behaviour to go around and why Michael C's behavior isn't being shown while the behavior of the others is front and center is a question only the producers can answer. Personally, I think it's because Michael C. is going to go far this season (maybe even be one of the Final 3), maybe even farther than Gretchen, Ivy, and the rest of the HS crowd. If he's constantly saying crude and misogynist things it might not go down so well with the viewing audience.

    Some people simply have a more crude sense of humor, and don't mean to offend. The other contestants can't control what comes out of Michael C's mouth. They can, however, control how they respond to it, and so far it's been "all HS all the time" with Gretchen and her crew. I'm also noticing that the people who are able to stay away from that crap are doing better and better while the others are losing ground. They need to shut up, sit down and concentrate on their own work!

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    Re: 9/2 Show Discussion *Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Babbred;4055350;
    Yes, wasn't it last week that somebody here said Gunn had said in his blog that there was a lot to Wretchen that you weren't seeing, and that justified his tirade?
    My understanding from that part of his vblog was that we might be seeing Gretchen in a negative manner right now but there's more to it to her (I saw a positive spin to what he was alluding to). And he did say he ended up being fond of Gretchen in one of his vblogs.

    Say what you must about Gretchen but she hasn't character-assasinated anyone on the show. Her comments were strictly about someone's work or taste or skill, things related to judging the show. If us, the viewers, are priveleged to comment on the designers' works, then why can't she do the same without being called a b***h?
    Last edited by watts; 09-05-2010 at 10:36 PM.

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