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Thread: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #81
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini;4051160;
    I still find it hard to believe that they kept Ivy, given that she did the entire horrendous outfit. Hers, at least, should have been good, given that she broke away from the group to create her own design.

    And I see Wretchen as a bully because no one dares to say anything against her. There's a reason for that.
    Sure there is. They're weak willed ninnies.

    Gretchen sucks in any number of ways. But its just all too convenient to shift all the blame her way, abjure the idea of personal responsibility, and recast the whole thing as the result of some kind of magical (and all but invisible) bullying.

    Gretchen said things and they agreed. The fact that she's a boring designer and has been from Week 1, despite how the judging painted her? Irrelevant to that, I personally believe. The fact that she changed her position on the quality of the collection in front of the judges? Again, irrelevant to the bullying issue--even if its a valid thing for the judges to call her out on (we're talking about Tim's call-out mainly here, and what I consider a surprising level of agreement from people seeing it).

    Personally I think for the most part its because we like to see people we dislike put on the spot. It was nice to see Gretchen get hers, because in many ways she sucks. My issue is that she wasn't called out for what's actually wrong with her. Her assertiveness is one of her strengths, just as the weak willed namby pambyness of the others is their weakness. If she had been called out by Tim for her boring taste, or simply for the way she backpeddled her position to the judges, then I'd agree.

    And again, I believe she had some really valid points we have to consider too. Even the devil can see evil, right? The way the judges operate can be pretty disgusting--Kors for example is a major blowhard--and the way they reacted to contestants deciding to not scapegoat someone is telling, just as their arrogant assumptions about why Michael's actions were the ones talked about by the group only AFTER they pretty much forced the group to play that "who's the worst" game (and they DID ask the question in that ridiculous fashion--"who's the worst" instead of as "what made you lose").

    All I'm saying is that the judges and Tim both have a lot of egg on their faces too. At least the way this all was edited together suggests that.

    And it will make me suspicious now if Gretchen magically goes home next episode. If there's some kind of well constructed argument that she's made yet another boring design I might otherwise have bought it, but there won't be the groundwork, since the judges have never deigned to notice how boring her work is--the very opposite in fact.

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  2. #82
    Who is John Galt?
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Krom: Once again you make very inciteful, logical arguments. I always look forward to your comments. You cut through all the cr*p and get right to the issue. I agree with everything you said about this episode. Gretchen is a domineering, tactless witch, but her team consisted of gutless followers who should have at least questioned her decisions and made their own suggestions. They deserved to lose. But I also agree that the judges' taste is sometimes questionable and they send mixed messages to the contestants.

  3. #83
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    FYI: on the Lifetime.com Project Runway website Tim does video interviews with the departing designers. It's called "Under the Gunn". Kinda cute. It's nice to see him interact one on one with the designers.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  4. #84
    26.2, baby! Allie's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata;4051327;
    FYI: on the Lifetime.com Project Runway website Tim does video interviews with the departing designers. It's called "Under the Gunn". Kinda cute. It's nice to see him interact one on one with the designers.
    Thanks. I'll have to take a look at them. I've been missing Tim's vlogs (would have loved one for the last ep)

  5. #85
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleGemini;4051160;
    I still find it hard to believe that they kept Ivy, given that she did the entire horrendous outfit. Hers, at least, should have been good, given that she broke away from the group to create her own design.

    And I see Wretchen as a bully because no one dares to say anything against her. There's a reason for that.
    I think you can only be a bully if other people let you bully them. I see all of them on equal footing here. It's not the same as when someone resorts to playing unfairly, like a big kid using physical strength against a little kid.

    I don't like Gretchen for many reasons but it doesn't make her wrong if she's forceful and pushy and the others are too weak to stand up for themselves. There isn't a right or wrong here just who's is stronger. The others only have themselves to blame if they let her control them.

  6. #86
    old cow
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Has anyone heard if Heidi won for best reality tv show host or if P.R. won for best reality tv show?

    I know in the past Amazing Race usually wins with Phil winning for best host but i was just wondering....

  7. #87
    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Hmmm.....I'm confused. I've watched every episode and I've yet to see Gretchen behaving any differently than any of the other strong and forceful male contestants in past seasons. I've not see any evidence of her being a bully and I've definitely not seen anything that warranted Tim attacking her like he did.

    She voiced her opinion, forcibly, and if the others are too big of cowards and too much of sheep to speak up for themselves then how is that her fault? She did not tell them "Do it this way or I will give you a wedgie". She said what she thought and the rest simply nod their heads and smiled and applauded about how they were such wonderful ideas and how brilliant she was.

    How is that bullying?

    I suspect that there is more to this story and it was edited out but I can only judge based on what has been shown and I don't see her any differently than Santino and the others like him. Maybe it's because she's a female? I don't know. Just not really getting the comments of bullying when there hasn't been any shown.
    Avatar: Eastern Amberwing dragonfly photo by me.

  8. #88
    FORT Fanatic brierpatch's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    raisin - Top Chef won

  9. #89
    FORT Fogey buttahfly's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    ITA. the collection was just butt ugly . . . .Gretchen def should've gone home. or Ivy bc that outfit w the shorts was HORRIBLE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata;4049450;
    Gretchen you beyotch. Should have gone home because you were completely responsible for that entire collection. I honestly do believe that the producers stepped in and saved her just because she is such a villain.

    Ivy, hateful, spiteful, ugly piece of DNA in the way she treated Michael C.

    Michael C. was very classy how he handled the venom thrown at him during the judge's panel. Considering Gretchen was totally responsible for the look and feel of the collection I can't see how she could blame it all on Michael C.

    Tim Gunn has only risen higher in my eyes. Thank you for telling off Team Luxe. I can't wait to listen to his Vlog on Facebook.

  10. #90
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmony2000;4051802;
    Hmmm.....I'm confused. I've watched every episode and I've yet to see Gretchen behaving any differently than any of the other strong and forceful male contestants in past seasons. I've not see any evidence of her being a bully and I've definitely not seen anything that warranted Tim attacking her like he did.

    She voiced her opinion, forcibly, and if the others are too big of cowards and too much of sheep to speak up for themselves then how is that her fault? She did not tell them "Do it this way or I will give you a wedgie". She said what she thought and the rest simply nod their heads and smiled and applauded about how they were such wonderful ideas and how brilliant she was.

    How is that bullying?

    I suspect that there is more to this story and it was edited out but I can only judge based on what has been shown and I don't see her any differently than Santino and the others like him. Maybe it's because she's a female? I don't know. Just not really getting the comments of bullying when there hasn't been any shown.

    You make some good points. I sense that the judges were not as upset that Gretchen reacted as she did, but rather were upset that she did not do it the way they wanted it done. They want the contestants to trash others the way they want them to do it.

    Gretchen admitted her part of the responsiblity and admitted the judges called her out for it. What more can you do?

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