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Thread: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #91
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmony2000;4051802;
    Hmmm.....I'm confused. I've watched every episode and I've yet to see Gretchen behaving any differently than any of the other strong and forceful male contestants in past seasons. I've not see any evidence of her being a bully and I've definitely not seen anything that warranted Tim attacking her like he did.

    She voiced her opinion, forcibly, and if the others are too big of cowards and too much of sheep to speak up for themselves then how is that her fault? She did not tell them "Do it this way or I will give you a wedgie". She said what she thought and the rest simply nod their heads and smiled and applauded about how they were such wonderful ideas and how brilliant she was.

    How is that bullying?

    I suspect that there is more to this story and it was edited out but I can only judge based on what has been shown and I don't see her any differently than Santino and the others like him. Maybe it's because she's a female? I don't know. Just not really getting the comments of bullying when there hasn't been any shown.
    They smiled and applauded until she did a 180 and started calling everyone out for their weaknesses as if it was her job to do so. She made a stirring speech at first, but the problem is that it was irrelevant to the judging. Someone was going home, and her "unity" speech just wasted the judge's time while they were trying to find out who did what. She loves the sound of her own voice too much.

    And when male contestants have acted like her in the past, they have been called bullies too -- Santino comes to mind, also Emilio, Rami, Jeffrey, even whatshername who won last year. All these people did what they did because they were impossible to reign in, or be convinced that there was another point of view besides their own.

    I don't agree with the idea that bullies only succeed because people allow themselves to be bullied. There is no one standard for skin thickness that everyone can be measured against. Someone can have conviction and still be shy or timid. When someone becomes a freight train in this atmosphere, their actions aren't automatically justified by others' inaction. It's neither completely objective nor completely subjective.

    Basically, Gretchen never knows when to shut up, or keep her opinions to herself. She assumes that she is at a level above most of the other designers, as if it's a fact. It's not a capital crime, but it is wrong-headed thinking, and people aren't wrong for finding it annoying.
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  2. #92
    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by MFWalkoff;4052034;
    They smiled and applauded until she did a 180 and started calling everyone out for their weaknesses as if it was her job to do so. She made a stirring speech at first, but the problem is that it was irrelevant to the judging. Someone was going home, and her "unity" speech just wasted the judge's time while they were trying to find out who did what. She loves the sound of her own voice too much.
    I think there is some really bad editing going on because it felt disjointed.

    One minute she is going along with the party line (remember, they all agreed to stand together) and then there is this odd gap and she isn't anymore. I think they edited out the haranguing of the judges, I'm thinking they were more upset with them for not throwing each other under the bus and that the only reason Gretchen spoke up is because the others didn't.

    They all stood there looking at each other and her and waiting for her to speak.

    I see your points but I didn't see the playing out of the episode the same way. What I saw was a bunch of wimps and cowards who aren't brave enough to speak for themselves against her or to the judges. They put her in a position where she had to say something because they sure as heck weren't and it wasn't until they were spoken to directly by the judges did they say something.

    I think she's a convenient target for the viewers and the judges which is a pity because she's talented but I do agree that she needs to learn when to keep her mouth shut, regardless of how much the others are pushing her into a mouth piece position.

    I also think that Tim was way out of line and it left a bad taste in my mouth for him, my opinion of him dropped a bit. I want an explanation, I want to see something that justifies that attack. I haven't yet.
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  3. #93
    26.2, baby! Allie's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I thought it was interesting that in her vlog, Gretchen said that she was the cheerleader and made sure that everything got done. But she said she did not think she was a leader. She called herself a martyr and said someone is forced to cause drama (I believe she was taking about her speaking on the runway and how she had established herself as a talker). She said if she was the leader, nothing would have been made like that. That she would not have made what she did.

  4. #94
    dance aggressively Endit's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I can't believe I just saw this now. The only one so far that's juicy and everybody talks about and I just happen to NOT be on the forum. But I'm here for all the dead episodes!

    Opposite world. Just opposite world. Casanova and Peach in the top and Gretchen in the bottom? Seriously!? And since when does Gretchen break out the water works? Just as unexpected was Tim calling out Gretchen during his goodbye speech. Has he EVER done something like that!? I've seen every season except 1 and he has NEVER brought in an attitude like that.

    Gretchen's sob story was pathetic and didn't even make the judges flinch. The look on Kors face was "OH PLEASE! Are you kidding me? Do you know how this works?" And then she totally backpeddled. It was really something for them to get a taste of being on the bottom. Maybe they will think twice about how the previous people handled it.

    I don't like her at all but I do not think she's consciously manipulative. She's just a control freak who likes to oversee everything and is propped up by her previous history. I think the backpeddling was from being intimidated and trying to give the judges what they wanted to hear. Another problem is she was the only extroverted personality on her team. Face it, as much as she talked, others DIDN'T talk. They were just shy. And shy people tend to agree with others, especially on the stand. She could open her mouth and say "The sky is green, you are all ugly, and this show sucks." and her team would all agree. And I don't think she cracking the whip while working - they all looked like they actually agreed with her on choices. So they are just as guilty. Somebody could have tried to deviate and then brought that up on the runway but they were all so complacent.

    But even still, menswear and camel is SO safe sounding. They really would have had to pimp the hell out of it for a win.

    Don't think team military lace was that cohesive and I don't get the love for Peach's look at all but they had a lot more interesting ideas and they really went for it. I was hoping one team would pick a unique combo and they went for it.

    Other interesting combos I pondered:
    * 50's retro & ladylike shapes + gold/metallics (I wanted to see this)
    * Military + plaid
    * Minimalist + leopard and cheetah prints
    * Menswear for women + lace (impossible)
    Last edited by Endit; 08-31-2010 at 07:29 AM.

  5. #95
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie;4052188;
    I thought it was interesting that in her vlog, Gretchen said that she was the cheerleader and made sure that everything got done. But she said she did not think she was a leader. She called herself a martyr and said someone is forced to cause drama (I believe she was taking about her speaking on the runway and how she had established herself as a talker). She said if she was the leader, nothing would have been made like that. That she would not have made what she did.
    Maybe it is a case of introverts vs an extrovert, but I have seen the other designers tell her to shut up and let someone else talk. But the interesting thing to note is that the other designers in her group percieved her as the leader and that was easier to do then actually be a team. No way, no how do I see her as a matyr, she has too much self confidence, too much of an ego to consider herself a matyr. In fact AJ was the matyr for this challenge. Poor Gretchen crying crocidile tears.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  6. #96
    FORT Fogey TripleGemini's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I didn't think it was all that disjointed, but I have a 13yo and a lot of our discussions seem to go like that (usually when he's trying to convince me to buy something for him). I recognize that it's a form of manipulation and it only works if I give in.

    I think the other members of Team Luxe were content to let Gretchen speak for them because they didn't want to stand out...and because AJ got sent home, they were obviously right.

    I think this week's show ought to be interesting...we'll get to see the ramifications from last week.

  7. #97
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Kip;4050981;
    Is it possible that Tim was referring only to Gretchen's behavior on the runway?



    I could make a case that Gretchen was manipulative and a bully on the runway.
    Just watched it and I think it referred to JUST the runway. Because there have been other far more controlling/"bullying." (and Tim has never given such a criticism before.)

    She just took control of the deliberations and talked over Michael when Georgina Chapman complimented him.

    And I know there's a lot of editing but editing takes stuff out; it does not add. Gretchen didn't shut up. In the end she started to throw herself under the bus and taking everyone with her.

  8. #98
    26.2, baby! Allie's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by alizarules;4052989;
    Just watched it and I think it referred to JUST the runway. Because there have been other far more controlling/"bullying." (and Tim has never given such a criticism before.)

    She just took control of the deliberations and talked over Michael when Georgina Chapman complimented him.

    And I know there's a lot of editing but editing takes stuff out; it does not add. Gretchen didn't shut up. In the end she started to throw herself under the bus and taking everyone with her.
    Tim does specifically say "the runway." But I also think the runway was the last straw for him. He mentions Gretchen either by inference or by name in two exit interviews. I think he does not like her attitude and the fact that most of the other designers follow along like lemmings.

  9. #99
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I hope Tim does his vlog after tonite's epsidoe so he can discuss what has happened recently as well as what went down tonite. I know he's been tied up with the Emmy's and such but WoW I miss his comments on this show

  10. #100
    Éirinn go Brách NJ EJ's Avatar
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    Re: 8/26 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ASassyKat;4049826;
    *sigh* I didn't think it possible that I could love Tim Gunn any more than I already do. I was wrong! I LOVED that smackdown of TeamSmug!

    I love that Tim seems to be really speaking his mind this time around. He seems to be saying what I'm often thinking, and it's so refreshing.
    I agree with you. And I suspect that he's done a lot of that sort of reality checking over the seasons, but we just haven't seen it. His role is mentor, which entails both encouraging the designers & calling BS on their creations, attitudes & actions.

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