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Thread: 10/4 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #71
    It Just Is. RubyRed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairyprincess View Post
    The bottom line on the Jeffrey thing and I think everyone will agree, is that we saw such a SMALL portion of what actually occurred, it is very hard to base our opinions on whether it was Angela's mother's fault or Jeffrey's fault. I can see both sides here and think they BOTH probably were under stress and reacted badly. However, again, we did not see ALL of what the mother or ALL of what Jeffrey went through, so it's hard to judge.
    And I was also VERY happy that Michael was the fan favorite.....I know he was MY favorite!!

    And so it is with reality TV.

    I read that Tim Gunn said Angela kept adding fuel to the fire - footage that we never saw. So I can see why Jeffrey thought he was being set up by Angela and her mother. So I see his actions, although tackless, were not done in the purely mean spirit so many believe. He truly seemed to believe they were working to get him thrown off the show, so he behaved too defensively in the whole matter. Although, I don't believe her mother would plot with Angelica to try and get someone kicked off the show, even if her daughter couldn't stand him. But on some level, whether consciously or unconsciously, Angela was using her mother to get at Jeffrey. Seeing that her mother is something of a drama queen, it worked quite well.

  2. #72
    Mixing Old Fashioneds PhoneGrrrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookipichu View Post
    I am not saying Angela is faultless, nor am I even remotely a fan or Angela. Angela however, is much younger, has been a target of Jeffrey and just witnessed her mother being mistreated by Jeffrey. Given the circumstances, it is easier for Jeffrey to have been the better person and act professional. He did not.
    I agree Jeffrey could have taken the high road, but I don't see how Angela's age has anything to do with it. She's 33 and he's 36; they are both old enough to know better and take the high road. However, that would leave little for us to watch and talk about.

    The more I think about it, the more I'm disappointed in the reunion show. We needed more behind the scenes new material, not a rehash of the Keith and Darlene episodes. Was there no footage for something a la "Project Drunkway"? Did they EVER go out, like in seasons past, after a challenge was over?

  3. #73
    FORT Newbie divaqueen's Avatar
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    Laura and Jeffrey

    Quote Originally Posted by RubyRed View Post
    Well, all right. You have your opinion and I have mine. But you'll never convince me the Mom episode showed Jeffrey's "brand of evil." Please.

    There was more to this story...I read Tim Gunn's Blog, saw a little more footage on the PR site which gave me the opinion Angel's Mom was a problem, especially a problem for Jeffrey because her daughter and he did not get along at all.

    As far as the challenge goes Jeffrey did choose the colors she wanted - navy blue and purple - if I remember correctly. It was the periwinkle blue that caused a storm of controversy. I believe it's the designer's job and choice to experiment, take a risk and choose something a client might not have considered. Like the way Kayne did in choosing a lavender color for the Miss America dress, instead of an earth tone as Miss America had asked. Kayne thought of something she had not considered and she loved it. Angela's mother hated the blue even though she had never even tried the color (In her own words) Also, Robert did exactly what his client wanted and got kicked off for his trouble. I thought the colors were great. The only problem I had with the dress was that it was a glorified MuuMuu.

    I also have a hunch Laura defended Jeffrey because her mother probably hated the dress Angelia designed for her but she choice to go with it, work it on the runway and not complain and say "it's something I would never wear" even though it likely was.
    Not to mention the fact that their Moms became friendly during the Challenge and remained so following it!

    I'm in the minority also...even tho Jeff was a bu++ head in expressing his displeasure, Darlene was a whiny pain in the arse! Sheesh, how hard is it to be diplomatic when choosing one's words?? (It's not what you say but how you say it! Anyhoo, when yakking about the Mom epi with my Mom, we were in total agreement that Darlene was a big crybaby, pity poor me, alas and alack, sad sack.

    So there

  4. #74
    Charmed n' Dangerous tumblin' dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookipichu View Post
    ...Secondly, Alison's affection for Keith and Jeffrey, the two male loners of the group is hardly any indication of their respect or love for women. Tellingly, she didn't get along with any of the other women. Weird personalities flock together. Jeffrey's apparent ability to tolerate one woman does not negate his overall disrespect of women. That's like the people who say they are not rascist because they know someone of a different ethnic background and they can talk without him ripping the person's limbs off.
    Alison didn't get along with any of the women? When did that air? Alison seemed to get along fine with Bonnie, for example, and Uli. I don't think that was ever a focal point of the show.

    Jeffrey had tears in his eyes when Alison was auffed... (he outright cried when Robert was auffed, saying, "He's one of the most decent people here...") Jeffrey also said the next morning after Alison was gone, "I don't think it's any secret that she was my best friend here." Alison has said some wonderful things about Jeffrey on his web page, btw. So have Javi and Marilinda. Uli can't seem to keep her hands off Jeffrey, hugging him and calling him "rock star." (Side note to self - send that bitch back to Miami. lol)

    So I don't think it's about Jeffrey's "ability to tolerate one woman..." at all. He seems to love and respect many women, including his mother and his girlfriend - who calls herself "the luckiest girl in the world," by the way. He's even talked in an interview about his closeness with his maternal grandmother, and remembers how she taught him to sew when he was just a boy.

    I see no "overall disrespect of women," at all - to the contrary, I think he adores women...as long as they're not trying to set him up to fail. (And if you'll look at Marilinda's face when she working with Jeffrey, she's usually gazing adoringly at him.) Yes, he used the term "feminazi." Do you want a list of terms I've used about men, beginning with "pigs" and ending with things that I'm not allowed to say on this forum? C'mon...who among us hasn't said nasty things about the opposite sex? or the same sex??

    That doesn't mean I disrespect men; to the contrary, I love them! There have been times when one or two of them have really pissed me off - but lord help me if, at those times, there had been a camera in my face. I'd be branded as a man-hating female for the rest of my life - and nothing could be further from the truth!

    The thing is, you can't judge a person by one word that is used to increase the shock factor of a show. It's how they live their lives that count - and I think Jeffrey's ranked pretty damn high by the women who really know him.
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  5. #75
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoneGrrrl View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I'm disappointed in the reunion show. We needed more behind the scenes new material, not a rehash of the Keith and Darlene episodes. Was there no footage for something a la "Project Drunkway"? Did they EVER go out, like in seasons past, after a challenge was over?
    It's just the personality mix this season, they had to make the best of what they had to work with. I don't think they'll ever come across a group that was as effortlessly entertaining as the S2 bunch. They gave us musical numbers, impressions and role play, even fancy choreography (anytime Andrae went through a door or up the runway). And they were just being themselves!

    This season, the producers had to resort to a outtake of Jeffrey farting. Ugh. There must not have been anything more interesting going on that we didn't see...
    "Whatever you are, be a good one." Ė Abraham Lincoln

  6. #76
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    I wouldn't have minding seeing more from the episodes shot in Paris. Tim mentions in his Blog that they all had a nice stroll, a nice meal, etc.

    However, I did like the Tim segment and I forgot to mention earlier, but I liked the Bradley segment also. The ???? was hilarious.

  7. #77
    Devil Woman CourtneyLove's Avatar
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    About Jeffrey Vs. Darlene...

    I'm just surprised no one takes into account that Jeffrey had become used to the camera and could ignore it, or play up to it, but that Darlene was brand new to the scene, and got embarrassed and couldn't deal.

    The idea that she is prefers to portray herself as a victim, is bizarre to me. She was brought on a show to have an outfit designed for her, and then she was picked last. Her own ideas were ignored, well, stomped on, and she seems afraid that she'd be further humiliated by wearing a garment that she didn't find attractive. Some nice man asks her what she thinks, she tells him, and then she gets attacked ON CAMERA by the Neck O' Darkness. She tries to deal with Jeffrey's anger, her own humiliation, a camera in her face, and the fact that what was supposed to be a fun day on TV becomes a nightmare.

    In my opinion, she handled it rather well. Angela should have fought for her mother more, but she seems rather clueless and naive. They probably both hoped someone else would come in and fix things, and when that didn't happen, Darlene threw on that hideous outfit and walked down that runway like a champ.

    Jeffrey needs to be smacked. REPEATEDLY. He felt threatened, sure, I get it. Paranoia over how he'd treated Angela lead him to believe that this was her repayment, probably. He's not completely stupid, and he's sure she's going to exact some revenge. but he didn't attack Angela. He called a woman he barely knew a crazy bitch ON CAMERA, and there just is No excuse for that whatsoever. None. I am sorry. We can empathize with his insecurities and presumably suggest his stress levels blocked his better jugement, but since he still denies any wrongdoing that's just not the case.

    He's a total bastard.
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  8. #78
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CourtneyLove View Post
    About Jeffrey Vs. Darlene...

    I'm just surprised no one takes into account that Jeffrey had become used to the camera and could ignore it, or play up to it, but that Darlene was brand new to the scene, and got embarrassed and couldn't deal.

    The idea that she is prefers to portray herself as a victim, is bizarre to me. She was brought on a show to have an outfit designed for her, and then she was picked last. Her own ideas were ignored, well, stomped on, and she seems afraid that she'd be further humiliated by wearing a garment that she didn't find attractive. Some nice man asks her what she thinks, she tells him, and then she gets attacked ON CAMERA by the Neck O' Darkness. She tries to deal with Jeffrey's anger, her own humiliation, a camera in her face, and the fact that what was supposed to be a fun day on TV becomes a nightmare.

    In my opinion, she handled it rather well. Angela should have fought for her mother more, but she seems rather clueless and naive. They probably both hoped someone else would come in and fix things, and when that didn't happen, Darlene threw on that hideous outfit and walked down that runway like a champ.

    Jeffrey needs to be smacked. REPEATEDLY. He felt threatened, sure, I get it. Paranoia over how he'd treated Angela lead him to believe that this was her repayment, probably. He's not completely stupid, and he's sure she's going to exact some revenge. but he didn't attack Angela. He called a woman he barely knew a crazy bitch ON CAMERA, and there just is No excuse for that whatsoever. None. I am sorry. We can empathize with his insecurities and presumably suggest his stress levels blocked his better jugement, but since he still denies any wrongdoing that's just not the case.

    He's a total bastard.
    Beautifully said. I never saw Darlene protraying herself as a victim, crybaby or drama queen. She is a retiring personality, not loud or aggressive by any means; dealing with a raw personality like Jeff must have been like meeting a new species. Also woman of her generation were brought up to be polite and not spew every thought they have like alot of people do now in the name of being real and not fake. A little politeness does make the world a nicer place to live in although a lot of people have forgotten that in this me, me, me generation. The entire situation could have been handled very differently with a little tact from Jeff. I wonder if she was responsible for bringing him millions of dollars of business if he would have acted in any other way??? Somehow I think he would not and have cited artistic intregrity as the reason, but artistic intregrity does not pay the bills.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  9. #79
    FORT Fogey Brandy's Avatar
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    Both seemed to approach the situation from completely different (perhaps opposite) perspectives IMO. Darlene seemed to see the occasion as part of a fun, 'treat the mothers' trip to New York City. Almost like a mother's day weekend. She also seemed to think the dress was being 'designed for her' and thus her tastes/wishes would be taken into account.

    Jeffrey was seeing this as a challenge that could send him home and end his dream of winning the contest. So his main concern was to represent his design style well. He is also used to a different 'social code' and milieu. In his world, 'talking behind his back' could only mean backstabbing.

    Darlene was a fish out of water, and trying to adapt at any given moment. She fell back on what she knew - that you don't overtly criticise, if you dislike something you are tactful about it. Jeffrey mistook her attempt at tact, at being dishonest. But to her, (Midwestern background, etc.) his request to "tell me to my face" would have meant being rude. It would have equaled a gratuitous insult, in her translation of the situation. However, when Tim asked what she thought, (And the designer wasn't there for his feelings to be hurt), she felt someone in authority was asking her to comply and she did (assumed she had to). (This setting was very different than what she is used to.)

    I do not think Darlene intended to sabotage Jeffrey (I did get a bit of that sense from Robert's model aka Vincent's sister, however...the way she tossed the scarf as if it was about to bite her). I think she was simply floundering to know how just to behave, but tried to err on the polite side when it came to Jeffrey himself. I think she did feel bewildered due to all of the above.

    I can also understand Jeffrey's panic at what he saw as his being undermined with Tim. (However he should know, Tim's more fair than that and not so easily influenced...) He clearly wants to win badly. Bottom line though? As Robert said, Jeffrey still could have handled things differently. The client is always to be treated well. I think adrenaline got the better of him.

    I honestly think Darlene thought the weekend was a treat for the mothers, and that's why she said "it's been so great up til now". The other women were perhaps a bit more sophisticated and didn't mistake it for a treat from the show. And then, the more defensive Jeffrey felt, the more insulting he got.

    For the record too, I recall Darlene telling Jeffrey she wanted a blazer (not a muumuu) and also that she disliked the colors, (specifically the light blue) or am I wrong? I mean the storm has passed and this is all just academic. But long as we're talking about this.....

    I'm actually wondering whether the Jeffrey/Darlene situation should be its own thread.

  10. #80
    Charmed n' Dangerous tumblin' dice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandy View Post
    Both seemed to approach the situation from completely different (perhaps opposite) perspectives IMO. Darlene seemed to see the occasion as part of a fun, 'treat the mothers' trip to New York City. Almost like a mother's day weekend. She also seemed to think the dress was being 'designed for her' and thus her tastes/wishes would be taken into account.

    Jeffrey was seeing this as a challenge that could send him home and end his dream of winning the contest. So his main concern was to represent his design style well. He is also used to a different 'social code' and milieu. In his world, 'talking behind his back' could only mean backstabbing.

    Darlene was a fish out of water, and trying to adapt at any given moment. She fell back on what she knew - that you don't overtly criticise, if you dislike something you are tactful about it. Jeffrey mistook her attempt at tact, at being dishonest. But to her, (Midwestern background, etc.) his request to "tell me to my face" would have meant being rude. It would have equaled a gratuitous insult, in her translation of the situation. However, when Tim asked what she thought, (And the designer wasn't there for his feelings to be hurt), she felt someone in authority was asking her to comply and she did (assumed she had to). (This setting was very different than what she is used to.)

    ...

    For the record too, I recall Darlene telling Jeffrey she wanted a blazer (not a muumuu) and also that she disliked the colors, (specifically the light blue) or am I wrong? I mean the storm has passed and this is all just academic. But long as we're talking about this.....

    I'm actually wondering whether the Jeffrey/Darlene situation should be its own thread.
    Wow, good thinking, Brandy. I agree with everything you said here. I'd also add that Laura didn't help things by going into the sewing room and telling Jeffrey, "Angela's mother is in there complaining to Tim about you..." I mean, what could she have said that would more quickly set him on edge, on the defensive, and ready to rumble? He must have thought she was setting him up. His first comment when he flew in the room was, "Hi Tim, I didn't know you were already at my station." He was visibly agitated already.

    In hindsight, it was a situation that, given the personalities involved and Laura's comment, was destined to blow up. All of them could have handled it better. And yes, in hindsight, this definitely could have been its own thread, and then some! lol

    Thanks for adding a really great cultural perspective to this.
    The thieves get rich, the saints get shot-
    And god don't answer prayers a lot.

    -Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip

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