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Thread: 10/4 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #51
    FORT Fogey TunaFests's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumblin' dice View Post
    I think we can apply that to Jeffrey, too. Some people have thin skins and take what other people said very personally.

    Jeffrey has a thin skin and took what Angela's mother said to to Tim very personally. She started it, and he finished it. Don't start bitching and then cry when people bitch back.
    or don't be unreasonably hard to work with in the beginning...then she would have had no reason to complain.

  2. #52
    Fight Queen corprip's Avatar
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    I admit, I've reassessed my initial reactions to the Mom episode. The "woe is me" attitude of Angela's mom was way overblown, and she was being very difficult to work with. Yes, Jeffrey handled it badly, but Angela and her mother seized upon the incident, blew it up, and made it something much worse than what it originally should have been.
    "I've got soul, but I'm not a soldier." The Killers.

  3. #53
    Samantha's Mommy Closet Fan's Avatar
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    Well, there were little interesting bits, but mostly ho hum. Every time it got good (like the stuff about Keith) they changed the subject or went to a commercial. With the exception of Milan, who seemed much more logical and articulate, not to mention far less creepy, than he was editted on the show, it seemed to confirm in my mind everything I'd already concluded.

    (1) Vincent *is* really delusional, and he didn't listen to Tim and the judges any more than he listened to anyone else. Quel surprise. And despite his bravado on the subject, just like Jeffrey, the incessant need to pan his fellow designers' talent is probably more rooted in his own insecurities and desperate need to feel superior, than it is in any real sense of his own self worth. He was probably also very delusional in thinking he would get a warmer welcome from his fellow designers (thanks to apparently gratuitous slaps at them and at Tim in the press) than he did, miffed when it didn't happen, and didn't have the b@!!s to completely stand up for his opinions when challenged on them. The laundry tantrum was funny, but it made him look even more ridiculous and childish, and he didn't need that. If I'd been the producer, I would have bought the airplane ticket, and sent him off...

    (2) Keith, well, he's clearly delusional in his own, but very different way. He had months, literally months, to come up with a better story than he did, heck, the man is apparently working with some sort of PR firm, and yet after months and months, he not only didn't come up with even a marginally plausible story, but he dug his own hole deeper. He looks WORSE after the reunion show, he made himself look like more of a liar and cheater, not more sympathetic. There was no prohibition in the contract. Excuse me, don't you think Bravo has a signed contract to the contrary? They told me to go ahead and leave. Yeah, right -- all those tight security measures to keep things under wrap, all those contractual prohibitions on breathing a word, and one of the producers supposedly tells him to go ahead and leave on his own, and BTW, why don't you fool around on the internet while you're gone? Not likely. Oh, and the piece de resistance, the producers took away the prohibited books (which weren't really prohibited, BTW) and then snuck them under the bed a week later as an excuse to get him booted (for a non-existent offence, mind you) but he's not suggesting a conspiracy. Gee Keith, are Vincent and Michael Jackson neighbors of yours in neverneverland?

    (3) As for the whole Darlene (Angela's mom) and Jeffrey thing, I think there was culpability on both sides, but the bulk of it was Jeffrey's responsibility and Jeffrey's fault. I'm not contesting that Angela's mother took the whole thing too seriously, that her feelings were easily hurt, she cried easily, and she gave too much credence to the challenge and how Jeffrey treated her. But come on folks, Jeffrey is the designer, it was part of his challenge to actually listen to what the client said about their dislikes and likes, incorporate that into the outfit, and to treat her in a professional and courteous manner, whatever he personally thought of her. Darlene told him what colors she liked, and Jeffrey ignored her. Darlene only told Tim that she didn't like them when specifically asked, I don't think her objections to how Jeffrey spoke to her were unwarranted, and she behaved quite graciously towards him on the runway, when she should in fact have panned him. We saw not one word of complaint on the runway about the extremely objectionable manner in which he had treated her, when it could have, and should have, gotten him booted from the competition.

    Plus, Jeffrey is clearly trying some revisionist history (a la Santino) here. He made excuses that he was tired and stressed (gee, wasn't everyone else?) and said he hadn't had an opportunity to apologize to Darlene, when in fact it was very obvious from all the footage shown that he felt he had nothing to apologize for, that he didn't care how he treated his "client", that he had no intention of making amends, and in fact, was crowing at the fact that he could send that kind of garbage down the runway and still not get eliminated.

  4. #54
    FORT Fan ladidanz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corprip View Post
    Yes, Jeffrey handled it badly, but Angela and her mother seized upon the incident, blew it up, and made it something much worse than what it originally should have been.
    That is so true. Laura pointed out that the other mothers didn't really say much about the designs. Angela's mom acted like she was buying the outfit straight from Jeffrey. I think both of them could have handled the situation better.

  5. #55
    It Just Is. RubyRed's Avatar
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    It was an okay show with a few funny parts.

    What was with Keith trying to pretend it was never stated in the contract you can't have books? And then blame it on the producers? He just seemed to think he could lie his way out of it. If you're going to lie, just say I never used them, but admit it was fair he was kicked off for having them, even though he was very unhappy to get kicked off.

    Loved the bewildered-clueless expressions on the designers faces as Tim Gunn used obscure words to describe their pieces.

    The Vincent freak-out over his shirts was hilarious.

    Agreed with those who thought the Mom challenge was the hardest. I didn't think it was fair for some to get plus size models (which they had never designed for before) and others to get more normal sizes. I mean what can you say about a challenge where Vincent won??? Enough said.

    Loved it that Laura stuck up for Jeffrey in the Mom challenge too. It's an unpopular opinion and I'll offer mine own. Angela's Mom acted as if she had paid him to make the dress. I'm sure she was not the only person who didn't like what had been designed for her, but others didn't say anything because they understood it was not about them, but it was about the designer's creations. And did it work, or not work? But yes, Jeffrey was a little paranoid in believing he was being set up, but a little understandable under the conditions. I hear a lot of people say "what you do do if that was your Mother", but I'll turn it around and ask what would you do if the mother of a person you had been fighting with trashed your design a couple of hours before show time, and then insults it further on the runway. Maybe handled it a little more tactfully that Jeffrey I hope, but no one would be too pleased with that mother.

  6. #56
    FORT Fanatic texasgal26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladidanz View Post
    That is so true. Laura pointed out that the other mothers didn't really say much about the designs. Angela's mom acted like she was buying the outfit straight from Jeffrey. I think both of them could have handled the situation better.
    I did feel bad for Darlene and, initially, Angela after watching that episode. But it really bugged me last night when after being asked if people have been recognizing her since the show, Angela said nothing about her designs but instead jumped on how everyone's been so sympathetic to her after the "Mom" episode. I felt like it was just a way of saying, "see, everyone else agrees with me."

    Also, I really think Jeffrey just says things... perhaps unintenionally.... in a very non-tactful way. At one point when talking to Darlene, he said something like, "Maybe other people see things in you that are beautiful that you don't see" - which I thought was a very nice thing to say - but then he had to follow it up with "what do you think of that?!" and something about her being insecure.

  7. #57
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tumblin' dice View Post
    I think we can apply that to Jeffrey, too. Some people have thin skins and take what other people said very personally.

    Jeffrey has a thin skin and took what Angela's mother said to to Tim very personally. She started it, and he finished it. Don't start bitching and then cry when people bitch back.
    See this is were we disagree. Darlene did not start bitching. Tim asked her what she thought and she said she did not like the color choice. How is that bitching? Darlene was not going to say anything to Jeff about it and until Jeffrey brought it up in his usual tactless manner. Did he have a right to ask Darlene's opinion sure, it's the how he did it that sits raw with me and others. He was not professional about it. Yes, he is a designer but a designer also has to have people skills to get clients to buy his clothes.

    The main point is Darlene didn't start anything but Jeffrey sure did finish it.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  8. #58
    Who-dat Runway victim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata View Post
    See this is were we disagree. Darlene did not start bitching. Tim asked her what she thought and she said she did not like the color choice. How is that bitching? Darlene was not going to say anything to Jeff about it and until Jeffrey brought it up in his usual tactless manner. Did he have a right to ask Darlene's opinion sure, it's the how he did it that sits raw with me and others. He was not professional about it. Yes, he is a designer but a designer also has to have people skills to get clients to buy his clothes.

    The main point is Darlene didn't start anything but Jeffrey sure did finish it.
    Okay, I've watched all of the bonus footage on the Bravo site (would definitely recommend it- It's way more entertaining than the reunion show)and here is my take:

    In the Jeff/Darlene debacle- Laura went into the sewing room and told Jeff (who was sewing the dress) that Darlene was complaining to Tim about his garment. When you have this info and then see Jeff walk up to Darlene & Tim, I for one- had a different perspective on his reaction.

    In the same episode- I really think the victim here was Robert- who did absolutely exactly what Vincent's sister wanted (according to Tim's Podcast she stated she would not wear anything else). She chose the color and had a hand in the design and Robert got sent home for it. True he should have done his own thing but we are judging Jeff for doing just that with a difficult client.
    Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. -Albert Einstein

    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

  9. #59
    Who-dat Runway victim's Avatar
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    One thing I missed from past Reunion shows was the designers meeting in a more "social atmosphere" prior to sitting down and being more professional.

    I like seeing what they want to discuss with each other, not just a Q&A when they are trying to be on their best behavior.
    Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. -Albert Einstein

    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

  10. #60
    FORT Fogey Lizard's Avatar
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    I like Jeffrey the most, then Michael, then Uli, then Laura.

    That was rather unprofessional of Laura accusing Jeffrey of having assistance because he had sewn all his buttons on. It's called being prepared. Jeffrey was one of the most skilled constructors. He obviously wouldn't have needed assistance.

    J

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