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I only say plus-sized because they weren't a size zero. In most stores in my area, the racks only go up to size 12 so if you're larger than that, you have to go to a store that sells plus sizes. At size 14, Ven's client would certainly be a plus size in my area. I've always thought that's unrealistic because a size 14 isn't necessarily fat but it is what it is.
I just read all the posts. mmmmm LOL Ven just auf'ed himself I wonder if he and Representative Todd Akin, Republican of Missouri, (he of the legitimate rape comment) could possibly share a remote desert island or if their two egos wouldn't permit that? Seriously, when I see two miserable human beings like these two I completely understand abortion.
And you know what sucks? He can probably still shop in the regular men's department. That ticks me off no end. A guy who's 60+ pounds overweight can still shop in the "regular" department and a woman who wears a 14 often has to shop in the plus sizes. Such a b.s. double standard. A had a BF who was WAY bigger than me (like 5'11", 250+ lbs) and yet I was the one who had to shop in the specialty store.Originally Posted by PhoneGrrrl
I'm still waiting for the show to start here on the West coast, but I can't wait to see Ven get smacked down. Tim Gunn hates nothing more than bad manners, so I'm sure he was thoroughly disgusted.
However talented Ven is - and I do think he's talented - I think he's now a marked man. I don't think the judges are going to cut him slack any more after this.
Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"
I don't understand the double-standard, either, and it's high time it changed. Maybe they should find out the average sizes women are and carry all those sizes in the regular section...in EVERY store, not just specialty stores. Department stores have always been the worst offenders. In my teens, I had to shop in the women's section and I haven't been able to buy anything there since about my 20's.
Another thing--Ven's client, while not a size 6 (if he could even handle someone THAT "real"), she had some height on her. He'd probably stroke out at designing for someone who was 5'2" and also a size 14-16. Nathan's dress was kinda fugly and didn't do much for his client, but at least he didn't make his client cry, insult her (maybe questioned her taste, but not to her face, but not too snarkily), and actually listened to what she had to say. I much would have preferred Ven getting the auf. Gunner's client wasn't some stick girl, and we know he can bring out the bitchiness, but he was nothing but lovely and designed an adequate dress. It wouldn't have been in my top 3, but the client loved it and suited her personality.
I really did love Fabio's design and would buy it in a heartbeat if it had sleeves--same goes for Dmitry's dress. Given that they have less than a full day on these challenges, I'm backing off on my sleeveless complaining.
Who said that men are better at designing than women? My DVR cut off the previews.
Well, when you wear off-brand golf shirts ALL.THE.TIME and aren't a professional golfer, I suppose it's easy for him.And you know what sucks? He can probably still shop in the regular men's department. That ticks me off no end. A guy who's 60+ pounds overweight can still shop in the "regular" department and a woman who wears a 14 often has to shop in the plus sizes. Such a b.s. double standard. A had a BF who was WAY bigger than me (like 5'11", 250+ lbs) and yet I was the one who had to shop in the specialty store.
But yeah, I'm short (5'4") and I've been all over the spectrum of sizes, so I know about trying to balance going to the petites, the regulars, the plus, and the plus petites (when you can find them) in a fit of insanity in a department store to find some damn pants. Meanwhile, if you're a dude, you go to the pants department and there they are--in one inch increments in length and waist. AT MOST women have petite (29"), regular (32"), and long (34" or 36") pants lengths. So either I have to deal with too short, too long, or factoring in another $7-12 for professional hemming.
Sorry for the double post, but this topic just makes me irate!
Yeah, I thought so for a split second, too, but I didn't get my hopes up. He's designed such beautiful things in the past that I knew they would keep him around. However, I'm not too depressed because A) the other designers have seen his true colors now and don't like him and B) Heidi has a long memory.
I wondered if Heidi was overruled by the other judges? That's happened in the past. Man, I thought she was going to come right up on the stage and smack him. Now THAT would have been an episode worth watching!I'm glad Heidi gave Ven a verbal smackdown but I think he should have been auf'd. The women were given makeovers to make them feel better about themselves but Ven only made his client feel worse about herself. He even made her friend cry with his treatment of her! He didn't take any time to get to know his client and see how he could best help her. He spent the whole challenge complaining about getting stuck with her. That's just inexcusable.
Amen. I thought that as the women came down the runway. A couple of the other women were not skinny, either, but their designers managed to make them look pretty. No...excuse...whatsoever.Ven wasn't the only designer with a plus sized client so he can't legitimately use that excuse. Plus, truthfully, the women they designed for on this challenge are more representative of the average woman than the models they routinely use. They need to keep that demographic in mind because they're the women who will be purchasing their outfits and wearing them on a regular basis.
PhoneGrrrl said:
That's me! I wish I could have been his client. I wouldn't have needed a friend to defend me.Another thing--Ven's client, while not a size 6 (if he could even handle someone THAT "real" ), she had some height on her. He'd probably stroke out at designing for someone who was 5'2" and also a size 14-16.
Anger aside, I feel so badly for this woman.She came on this show because she has a difficult life and her friend wanted her to have a nice treat. I really wish that somebody would start a campaign to maybe have a business give her a makeover to make up for this fiasco. Let Ven see another example of good talent and good character combined.
Few points, mostly about Voldemort (Ven - he's now taken she who will not be named's title - I guess she is now Bellatrix Lestrange from "Harry Potter" - and yes, I know I'm not supposed to use the "V" name, but still...):
1. Should've been a double elimination - Both Ven and Nathan's dresses were bad, looked cheap in all aspects. Nathan's would've been saved if it didn't have the panels and the sheer sleeves. It'd been safe, but better safe at this point.
2. Ven said his model looked "Sheek and sophisticated" - shoot, I came into the show late tonight and I read that dress as "streetwalker from the 1940s" when she walked out.
3. Ven's attitude was abysmal, classless and makes a sheep feedlot at 10 paces smell nice. Designers should be able to design for anyone and everyone - not all of us are size 0 and yet there are some of us willing to pay a decent amount of money for a nice handmade outfit. I personally felt Ven's comments were borderline verbal bullying.
In all honesty - I wish the model and friend could've walked out, he not get another model and been eliminated FOR that reason - it'd been tantamount to a lost sale.
4. Sonjia was going to be safe - her dress was a little too short and the knot needed to be just a bit lower, but the color was nice and the design overall looked nice.
5. The top three - Fabio, Gunner and Dimitry. I loved Dimitry's and Fabio's the best as I like geometric designs and color; but it HAD to be a difficult decision here. Fabio's however deserved it because he took a huge risk and it paid off. The belt comment however was right on, not so much becuase it was busy in the idea, but it was the wrong color which in turn made it too busy.
Dimitry's I admit it looked comfortable enough to sleep in and even wear leggings under if she needed to be a bit more casual.
6. Alicia surprised me - that pink dress fit OK for the most part but WAS interesting with the darker pink insets here and there. Christopher's was OK, but he should learn his lesson now and if it's a challenge like this to spend time a bit more equally over dress and jacket - as the latter is usually taken off anyway. Melissa's dress WAS interesting and lovely; however, she should've done no scarf. She'd been in the running for top three I think too if she played around with color again.
7. Nice to see Elana smile, and the outfit was nice - but like with Melissa, would've liked colors instead of the neutrals.
And finally.
8. Nice to see BOTH Tim and Heidi smacking Ven verbally and tactfully. Too bad Ven is denser than a brick wall here, because that ego will get him into trouble. As I mentioned earlier on - this is the Bellatrix syndrome (she who will not be named but won a couple of seasons ago) her ego started showing in her work, and she plummeted in designs. It's exactly why we felt Mondo should've won - he didn't let his ego get to him (either season for that matter) and produced the better designs overall (though I admit that I think Austin gave him a good run for the money).
Ven's got that in him now, and it will bite him for it.
I have now seen the entire episode and am even more disgusted by Ven. I don't even have to post anything everyone here is doing a marvelous job. It's that how dare Ven insult his client when he could stand to lose 60, 80 even a 100lbs. If Ven had just said one thing I would have been OK with it but it was non stop and the constant whining to his fellow contestants was a bit much. What was a very interesting contrast is the consultation with the hairdresser, how the hairdresser knew how to talk to the clients and saved Ven at that point. What is totally unbelievable is that when Ven talked to his client and was insulting her with every sentence everyone else in the room got it but him. This is where I would have loved to hear Tim Gunn's comments.
I believe it was Ven who made the sexist remark about men being better designers. But maybe I'm remembering it that way, because he made me so angry this episode.Another thing--Ven's client, while not a size 6 (if he could even handle someone THAT "real"
I really did love Fabio's design and would buy it in a heartbeat if it had sleeves--same goes for Dmitry's dress. Given that they have less than a full day on these challenges, I'm backing off on my sleeveless complaining.
Who said that men are better at designing than women? My DVR cut off the previews.
First, in most plus size stores, at least those around here, plus size starts at 18--or maybe, in rare cases, 16. Second, there's just no excuse for making a client cry unless she's one of those people who cry at the drop of the proverbial hat over everything, which Ven's client was not (if you've ever seen the crying bride in that New Orleans episode of Bridezillas, you know what I mean about the kind of person who just cries at everything, good or bad). And other people did have models who were larger or had hips or busts or wider waists too, and they didn't throw a fit about it.
Look, anyone can design for a hanger, and super skinny matchstick thin models are, as Kathy Griffin once put it, essentially hangers with heads. But most women do have busts, hips, and butts. Guess what: WE'RE SUPPOSED TO!
I also agree that it's beyond insulting that most women I know would much rather shop for clothes than men and probably buy more clothes than men, but guys can walk in, get the inseam and waist size they want, whereas women have to deal with sizes, which are a particular problem with pants. Not to mention the fact that SMLXL seem to mean entirely different things to different manufacturers. At this very moment, I have every size from S to XL in my closet in terms of tops and sweaters and they all fit. I've worn XL t-shirts under S cardigans. Go figure that one out.
Oh, yeah, and depending on one's height, a 14 might not be plus size at all. If you're tall enough, you could be a perfectly acceptable, normal weight for your height and still be a 14.
Ven isn't exactly tiny himself. He has a lot of nerve pointing out anyone else's weight or size. How would he feel if there were a menswear challenge and he was the model who was criticized by his designer for not looking like a cast member of Magic Mike?
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