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Thread: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #141
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Did I miss the opening credits or something. I always set my VCR several minutes before and after a show just in case and for me this show started with the group rowing at night and through some mist. Through the entire show I felt as if I had missed the first 5 minutes of the show, intros and it felt weird.

    John certainly stood out as not having social skills, or being enough off kilter that it seemed everyone felt spook vibes off him resulting in the unanimous vote off. Still he made a very bold move to mutiny JD off. He did show off that JD did not know were north was. As far as JD was concerned, I understand his concept of military discipline and that was needed in 1730 but would it work with all these egos and supposedly alpha types. Still I don't think JD will survive for long. I also think that the loss of the compasses will hurt the crew because there is big difference being a sailor on a modern naval ship vs trying to navigate by the stars. Somehow I find it very unlikely he will be able to do it especially if he tries the stick in the mud routine while on the ship. He needs to take into account the current and the wind shifting the ship.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  2. #142
    Read The Clue Bearcata's Avatar
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Art_930;2426966;
    I'm done with it too.

    Totally confusing rules that are way beyond me. So the captain gets half the spoils - why isn't the crew told that JD didn't just decide that on his own, but that it was a game rule?

    Aaaaargh (good pirate word). And where the heck is the parrot?

    Will keep reading all of your recaps, but I won't be watching.
    I have been listening (audiobooks) to the Dewey Lamdin series about a British naval officer during the Napoleonic Wars and the writer really explains how and officer could raise his rank and social standing and basically become quite weathly from the capture of enemy war ships and merchant men. The following are a few urls that explain what a captain's share usually entailed.

    The following explaination can be found at Prize Money
    This came from the disposal of any enemy ships which a Royal Navy vessel might capture. It included the value of the ship when condemned (by an Admiralty court) and sold, any cargo it carried and a small bounty on enemy seamen taken as prisoners. The system was perhaps rather unfair as all ships within sight when the capture took place were entitled to equal shares. The theory behind this held that an enemy might react differently if he knew that other warships were in the vicinity. He might, for instance, strike his colours without a fight if he knew he might have to take on another ship if he managed to take the first one. Also the Admiral, under whose orders the ship sailed, was entitled to a share, even if he was nowhere in the vicinity. Little wonder then, that Captains liked to be sailing under direct Admiralty orders because this meant there was no single Admiral commanding them and therefore all prize-money went to the crew. The origins of prize-money lay in the 'Cruizers and Convoys' Act of 1708 which handed over the share previously gained by the Crown to the captors of the ship. Technically it was still possible for the Crown to get the money or a portion of it but this rarely happened.

    The process of condemnation of a captured vessel and its cargo and men was given to the High Court of the Admiralty and this was the process which remained in force with minor changes throughout the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.

    The share-out of prize-money is given below in its pre-1808 state.

    (a) 1/8 Flag Officer
    (b) 2/8 Captain(s)
    (c) 1/8 Captains of Marines, Lieutenants, Masters, Surgeons
    (d) 1/8 Lieutenants of Marines, Secretary to Flag Officer, Principal Warrant Officers, Chaplains.
    (e) 1/8 Midshipmen, Inferior Warrant Officers, Principal Warrant Officer's Mates, Marine Sergeants
    (f) 2/8 The Rest.

    After 1808 the regulations were changed to give the following:

    (a) 1/3 of the Captain's share
    (b) 2/8
    (c) 1/8
    (d) 1/8
    (e) & (f) 4/8

    Another url also explains the pay scale on a ship Broadside5.Pay and Prizes.

    The idea of shares also worked on whaling ships:

    Long Island History: When the Sea Fed Long Island

    The pay for seamen was pitiful. Usually the profit from a voyage was divided into thirds. The owners and agents kept a third, another third paid for maintenance of the ship, and the remainder was split by the captain and crew. The captain's share might be a tenth, or a sixteenth, while a crewman could get one-two hundredth or one-two hundred and twenty-fifth.

    At the end of the voyage, a seaman might receive $5 in today's dollars on top of the clothing and food given to him while at sea. This was at a time when a can of beans would cost about 2 cents in today's money, so that $5 would feed a sailor and his family for at least several weeks. The captain's share would average between $300 and $400 in today's money, a sizable amount in those days.
    "When life gives you lemons, squirt lemon juice in your enemy's eyes."

  3. #143
    FORT Fogey misskitty's Avatar
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I was so disappointed I stopped watching half way through. Very slow, very boring contestants in the first episode. Not enough to get a real likeability factor on anyone. I though a lot of the players didn't have a clue what to do. And that there wasn't a lot of shots/conversations/fights for editing to choose from. If what I saw was the best, it will be a long season. Zzzzzzz.

    I though John did perform great as he did unlock the lock, found the treasure chest and had the smarts to try to mutiny the Captain with both compasses. Too bad he's gone. He was the only vaguely interesting one there. And good eye-candy.

    I think this was put together pretty fast, even though Mark Burnett said he had the idea 4 years ago. It's a little obvious it was timed with Pirates 3 IMO. And he chose to put it on during the summer when people are less discriminating.

    Some of the photography was well-done. But it lacked excitement for me. Maybe it was because I just saw Pirates on the big screen and that made this reality show look really, really, lame.

    Don't know if I'll continue to watch.
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  4. #144
    FORT Aficionado echo226's Avatar
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by John;2427436;
    The cast keeps what they earn each week, which will total $500k, and then there is a lump $500k to the winner of the game at the end. So, assuming perfect circumstances, the most you could win is $750k (captain's half-share every week, and the $500k grand prize).
    Thank you, for clarifying that John. I too wish you would have known and tried out.

    Bearcata, thanks so much for all of that enlightening information and the links. And by the way, I had that same "missed something" feeling and thought I missed the opening credits too, but apparently there were none.

    misskitty Hope you'll stick around for a while anyway. I haven't seen any of the Pirate movies yet ... so I'm sort of a virgin and not disappointed yet. I also didn't watch the first Survivor when it aired originally. Did it seem kind of absent something as well ?
    Also, I found John interesting too I'm sorry he was the victim of the surprise rules.
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  5. #145
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcata;2427618;
    ..... I also think that the loss of the compasses will hurt the crew because there is big difference being a sailor on a modern naval ship vs trying to navigate by the stars. .....
    Those two compasses were in reference to the challenges they will be doing on land. As was JD's reference to the North Star and the stick in the mud. A compass is still required for navigating a ship by the stars. A third compass, called a binnacle, is fixed on the Picton Castle, I'm sure. You also need a sextant and a chronometer. The sextant is used to take sights of heavenly bodies to determine were you are, the chronometer because you need to know what time it is when you take the sight, and the compass because you need to know the course to steer after you plot the position (obtained from the sight) on a chart (map) to get to were you want to go. Set from wind and current, (called leeway), is taken into account when doing the chartwork.
    Celestial navigation is complicated and the North Star is the least of it. I've said it before and I'll say it again....the contestants are NOT navigating the ship. There is a crew behind the scenes doing that. Yes, we saw them unfurling sails and heaving lines. Indicative that they got a crash course in deckhand duties, but that's it. Gives the unaware viewer the impression that they are running the whole show. They aren't. Maybe this is why I don't like the show because, as a marine navigator myself, I see right through all of it and can't get into the "fantasy".
    Actually, the crew behind the scenes probably have modern equipment. Maybe I'll watch the episode again and see if I can pick out a radar scanner or a GPS antenna on one of the full ship shots.

  6. #146
    FORT Aficionado echo226's Avatar
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribal Speak;2427684;
    Those two compasses were in reference to the challenges they will be doing on land. As was JD's reference to the North Star and the stick in the mud. A compass is still required for navigating a ship by the stars. A third compass, called a binnacle, is fixed on the Picton Castle, I'm sure. You also need a sextant and a chronometer. The sextant is used to take sights of heavenly bodies to determine were you are, the chronometer because you need to know what time it is when you take the sight, and the compass because you need to know the course to steer after you plot the position (obtained from the sight) on a chart (map) to get to were you want to go. Set from wind and current, (called leeway), is taken into account when doing the chartwork.
    Celestial navigation is complicated and the North Star is the least of it. I've said it before and I'll say it again....the contestants are NOT navigating the ship. There is a crew behind the scenes doing that. Yes, we saw them unfurling sails and heaving lines. Indicative that they got a crash course in deckhand duties, but that's it. Gives the unaware viewer the impression that they are running the whole show. They aren't. Maybe this is why I don't like the show because, as a marine navigator myself, I see right through all of it and can't get into the "fantasy".
    Actually, the crew behind the scenes probably have modern equipment. Maybe I'll watch the episode again and see if I can pick out a radar scanner or a GPS antenna on one of the full ship shots.
    One of the articles mentioned that much of the equipment was "replicated" to give the crew a feel for how things were back then. I'm not disagreeing with you as I'm sure there must be some modern equipment if only for safety's sake ... but also for the production crew's comfort.

    Perhaps rather than fantasy, you can enjoy it as reality replicated.
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  7. #147
    FORT Fanatic Omar_X's Avatar
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I didn't even know about this show until I just happened to stumble across it as I was setting up the DVR for the evening. So far, I'm failing to see much difference between it and Survivor, besides the fact the island has sails and moves around. I don't really know where to start, so I offer the following observations and suggestions.
    • I do like the idea of everyone having a shot at getting paid something as the show progresses. It allows lots of plot wiggle room for things like bribes, buying necessities that are in short supply (like cigarettes, eye liner and chest/back shaving razors), trade with unexpected natives, bribing Saturday Night Live to please don't do a sketch about it just yet, etc. Even if someone decides to hold onto all his/her money, the losers likely will not walk away empty handed.
    • They should all pitch in a buy the conspicuously missing parrot.
    • Every time someone says "Aaaargh!" they should be fined and/or flogged for up to and including three offenses. On the fourth offense they should be keel-hauled.
    • Cast lots to see who is going to take one for the team and get a real peg leg and/or hook hand. It's not a pirate show without it, people!
    • I'm something of a history buff. I have to confess complete ignorance of the ubiquitous pirate eyeliner. Pireyeliner?
    • More grog = better drama, please.
    • I also was unaware of the 1730's custom of the Mike Tysonesque, "what the hell is that thing coming out of the corner of your eye", Deep Space 1, temporary, face tattoos.
    • I was delighted that Stripper John - Master of the Banana Hammocks, Scientist (huh?), and probable Brain surgeon, was the first to be set adrift.
    • Since the silly factor is already so high, why the set adrift thing? They should have to walk the plank.
    • I don't know which was stupider, Stripper John's ill conceived attempt to coerce the crew into keeping him by kidnapping the compasses (like in real life they wouldn't have swarmed him, gutted him and used him as fish bait to catch their breakfast); or Capt. Long John Silver's (can't remember his real name) cagey claim of celestial navigation mastery before he realized it was a nearly overcast night.
    • Why isn't Long John Silver's a sponsor?
    • If it is allowed under the game rules for Stripper John to pull such a bone headed stunt as taking hostage all the ship's compasses, why can't someone else just steal all the loot after a few competitions, escape in a longboat under the cover of darkness, and call it a day?

    Over all I thought it was off to a weak start, but I'll give it a chance. I'm smelling rancid cheese already, matie, and it ain't coming from the galley. Aaaargh?

  8. #148
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Tribal Speak and Bearcata--thanks so much for all the info!

    Please keep watching the show and posting more info--I could learn a lot from the two of you.

    And all that info would definitely make the show more interesting!





    Tribal Speak--a question about navigation--can one navigate on the sea by just looking at the stars and observing them for several nights?

    Also--is there any book you could recommend for good basic (and understandable) info about running/sailing a big ship like that on the sea?

    Thanks in advance for any info.

  9. #149
    FORT Regular do_od's Avatar
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvest;2427101;
    Could not disagree more. John WAS smarter than the sheeple, who did not have the sense not to kick him off. And the captain position had already gone to JD's head, to be exacerbated next week if you watched the previews. And the sheeple deserve what they get.
    Agree. I just hate that captain. John practically did everything to help the black team won. I think the other members did a pretty lame job when they pick the captain but they did worse with the voting. If they all united and vote off the captain then they could reselect new captain( and get half of what they find next).

    John seemed like a weirdo at first but he was at least more helpful than half of the people on the black team.

    They'd better send that captain back to put off fire somewhere next week or they should all audition for Dumb and Dumber.

  10. #150
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    Re: 5/31 Show Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirlingal;2427882;
    ..... Tribal Speak--a question about navigation--can one navigate on the sea by just looking at the stars and observing them for several nights?

    Also--is there any book you could recommend for good basic (and understandable) info about running/sailing a big ship like that on the sea?

    Thanks in advance for any info.
    Like I said...it's complicated.
    Celestial Navigation Net
    Celestial navigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Marine chronometer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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