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  1. #51
    So Far Away Yellow Apple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohiomobprincess
    I'm so ready to see one of the "not so fab four" leave Paradise Hotel... forever!
    It'll happen. My guess is that one Original and one Outsider will split the prize. The producers are not going to be dumb enough to have an all Outsider or all Original Final Four.

    My guess is Charla and Dave are gone, while Keith and Tara make it to the finals along with Amy and Scott. Keith and Amy will win and Amy will not be happy about it, especially when she learns the "ultimate prize" is a vacation for two with the guy who wins.
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  2. #52
    Under Investigation Tirlittan's Avatar
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    I do not particularly like anyone in this show, it brings the worst out of them all, but there are ten degrees of bitchiness represented there. So, I dislike Amy more than anyone else there (well, her support group is right behind her), so I keep hoping she won't be there in final episode. Would be nice to see Keith, Tara, Dave and Charla. Probably Keith and Tara would then win, it just seems that if it would be the rest of the guests voting the winners (just assumptions, I have no idea), they would not let Dave or Charla to win.
    ps. This is just my opinion in the matter.

  3. #53
    FORT Regular calhoun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    Did DCKT really play a great strategy game ?

    I don't really think they did. Because of the twists/rules in the game that helped them to stay in the game. That's all.

    Thank about it.

    first week.. Charla would have gone.. if not for the you got to have a roommate first before you leave rule. That's when Charla kicked off Melaine. Charla didn't work her magic to persuade anyone to room with her.. just that she was lucky.
    I'll concede this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    Week two then Dave came in... as an vulnerable outsider and his attraction to Charla.. of course he teamed up with Charla. As for Charla.. she knew that everybody else hated her.. the only chance for her to survive is to team up with a disgusting guest (Dave). Even Charla admited to that. That's all Dave is to her. A Safety blanke
    Forming an alliance when you know your head is on the chopping block and you're vulnerable is pretty much the definition of "strategy," Ruben. Charla and Dave thought about where they stood by themselves, and how they could strengthen their position by helping each other out.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    And then.. Dave and Charla basically depend on each other to survive until Tara came on. Again.. Tara was given the "POWER" to kick off one of the girls in the hotel.. and she did what the original wanted her to.. which is to kick off Amanda. Should I give her to credit to kick off Amanda ? NO.
    Tara was also using strategy at this point, but just from a different position then the one she is in now from DCKT (and not one that I liked very much). She could have either gotten rid of one of the girls in power (Kristen, Toni or Amy) and had the other girls, and all of their guy friends, completely out to get her, or she could have picked the girl that no one except Beau and Charla really liked and saved herself an extra week from being above the radar. Tara, at this point, just hadn't decided which side was best for her, so she bought herself some time and picked neutrally. I didn't like her choice or the way she went about it, but it's not fair not to call it strategy on her part. And as she did make a choice that the Originals like, that is strong evidence against your point that Fox, at this point, was just trying to favor the underdogs by giving the new person the power (like you argue about Keith's choice of Zack). At this point, they were only trying to stop a revolving door of new guests, since the point of the show was to have "regular people" become standing guests at the hotel

    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    After that.. Keith came on.. once again.. Keith was given the "POWER" to kick off one of the guys. I give him the credit for picking Zack.. but once again.. he was given the "power".
    Yes, he was given power, but at the time the power was given, we didn't yet know if it was going to benefit DCKT. The Originals had just as much of an opportunity to get Keith to vote their way as Charla and Dave (and I think Tara was involved by this point too) and Charla and Dave coming to Keith to discuss it was strategy. In fact, Kristen did try to sway him, just with a bad strategy -- threatening him. We take it for granted at this point, but Keith's move was a gutsy one, and one that put him in significant jeopardy from that moment because he was #1 on the Originals hit list (granted, I think it also heped him stay there).

    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    The only credit I can give DCKT is that they somehow foul Desiree and Tom to side with them to vote off Alex... That's it.
    You're forgetting two of the most strategic moves, Ruben.

    1. Casino night: No one knew who had the most money right after casino night. Keith engineered a temporary alliance with his rival Alex so that, instead of each of Keith and Alex fighting to get the most money so that they could vote the other off, they could give their money to a third party to get rid of their joint rival Beau. This was amazing strategy on Keith's part, and if he hadn't done it, Alex may have very well had enough money and Keith would have been gone. No luck there. Just brains.

    2. King and Queen. This was part luck, part strategy. But DCKT made sure to get the right people (at the time) nominated, as Charla and Keith (at the time) were more vulnerable and less likely to be voted than Dave and Tara (Tom and Tara really got along at this point)

    Quote Originally Posted by ruben_of_205
    So in a way.. They didn't play such a great strategy game as they claimed.. They were lucky.. They were given the POWER by the TPTB.. otherwise.. they would be gone just like the others.
    No, Ruben, up until this past week, which I will admit I thought was rigged, DCKT did use a fair bit of strategy. Fox certainly changed the rules quite a bit, but until last night they did so with enough advance notice to the guest that any of the guests, had they been working together and using their head, could have turned them in their favor. There was some luck involved, but no more lucky than the original guests were to be the first ones cast.
    Last edited by calhoun; 09-16-2003 at 03:41 PM.

  4. #54
    So Far Away Yellow Apple's Avatar
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    Just have to give to calhoun for a great post.
    R.I.P Willie Dog (?/?/1989-12/17/2004). Gone but never forgotten.

    Welcome Zelda (and a hot of other names)! (Born 08/08/2005, adopted 10/08/2005)

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  5. #55
    Yoffy lifts a finger... fluff's Avatar
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    The rules had to change in the hotel or the new people would just get kicked off each week.

    The reason Dave stayed and Andon left is because a) he was not allowed to select Toni as his room mate again and no one else would have saved him and b) he chose Amy along with Beau when Amanda and Kristin still hadn't been selected.
    Basically he's an idiot.


    Tara and Keith just happened to be the ones given the opportunity to pick their partner last.
    Tara's choice to get rid of Amanda seemed a wimp out to me at first, biut I think in hind-sight it was a decent move.
    Keith getting rid of Zack was obviously a good move.
    He could have gotten rid of Dave and would likely have been booted himself the following week.

    The originals thought they could just sit back and wait for the prize to come to them.
    They didn't realise they had to play a game unitl it was too late and their numbers started to dwindle.
    "That's Numberwang!"

  6. #56
    Fort Freak! funnygirl422's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluff
    The originals thought they could just sit back and wait for the prize to come to them.
    They didn't realise they had to play a game unitl it was too late and their numbers started to dwindle.
    You forgot to note that these people (originals) have been burning bridges with each other since day one. They are always arguing with each other, setting each other up to fail and basically have no problem making stuff up when it suits them. How they can call each other friends is beyond me.

    I would love to see what's on the editing room floor. I would also like to talk with somebody from teh show who could be honest and tell me what really was going on in those in-between times. If the quotes were taken would have meant something totally different if used at a different time or for a different situation.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by calhoun
    Ruben,

    I posted a reply to this message in the Fab Four thread, if you're interested. I think you started this as your own thread (I think?) but since it is now in the We Hate DCKT fan club I wanted to respect the people here who want a forum to complain about them and not post a blatantly pro-DCKT reply.
    Yeah.. I did create a new thread for this.. unfortunately, a mod thinks that it belongs to "We hate DCKT" thread.. what more can I say.

    Now to answer your comments.


    Forming an alliance when you know your head is on the chopping block and you're vulnerable is pretty much the definition of "strategy," Ruben. Charla and Dave thought about where they stood by themselves, and how they could strengthen their position by helping each other out.
    Well. If you think that's strategy then it is also a "strategy" for the originals to stay together and to just vote off the new comers.. right ?

    Tara was also using strategy at this point, but just from a different position then the one she is in now from DCKT (and not one that I liked very much). She could have either gotten rid of one of the girls in power (Kristen, Toni or Amy) and had the other girls, and all of their guy friends, completely out to get her, or she could have picked the girl that no one except Beau and Charla really liked and saved herself an extra week from being above the radar. Tara, at this point, just hadn't decided which side was best for her, so she bought herself some time and picked neutrally. I didn't like her choice or the way she went about it, but it's not fair not to call it strategy on her part. And as she did make a choice that the Originals like, that is strong evidence against your point that Fox, at this point, was just trying to favor the underdogs by giving the new person the power (like you argue about Keith's choice of Zack). At this point, they were only trying to stop a revolving door of new guests, since the point of the show was to have "regular people" become standing guests at the hotel
    Actually.. I had no respect for what Tara did there. I mean. she was given the "power" and could have easily to choose to vote off Toni, Kristian or Amy. Amanda, Charla and her basically can take over the hotel at that point.. but Tara chose to play it safe and voted off Amanda. You can say it was a good "strategy" move for the original to persuade Tara to vote against who they least like less because they can't vote off yet Tara because of the "twist". I have no doubt that TPTB saw that hey.. this ain't going to work.. The original will just kept voting off new guests.. we need a twist to help out the underdogs.. it was just unfortunately.. that Tara didn't have the gut to do what had to be done.. IMO.


    Yes, he was given power, but at the time the power was given, we didn't yet know if it was going to benefit DCKT. The Originals had just as much of an opportunity to get Keith to vote their way as Charla and Dave (and I think Tara was involved by this point too) and Charla and Dave coming to Keith to discuss it was strategy. In fact, Kristen did try to sway him, just with a bad strategy -- threatening him. We take it for granted at this point, but Keith's move was a gutsy one, and one that put him in significant jeopardy from that moment because he was #1 on the Originals hit list (granted, I think it also heped him stay there).
    True.. we didn't know if the "twist" would benefit DCKT.. at least they were given a chance to stay alive.. otherwise.. they would be gone. Like I said.. I gave keith credit to vote off Zack... but without the "twist", he had no chance.

    1. Casino night: No one knew who had the most money right after casino night. Keith engineered a temporary alliance with his rival Alex so that, instead of each of Keith and Alex fighting to get the most money so that they could vote the other off, they could give their money to a third party to get rid of their joint rival Beau. This was amazing strategy on Keith's part, and if he hadn't done it, Alex may have very well had enough money and Keith would have been gone. No luck there. Just brains.
    Okay.. this to me.. doesn't make any sense. If I am not misundertaken.. Beau was buddy buddy with Dave at that time.. He even told Dave that he trusted Dave the most. I just don't understand why didn't Keith and Dave team up with Beau and get rid of Scott or Alex ? It was a strategic move for BOTH parties to come together. For Alex and Scott.. they didn't know if they had more money then Dave and Keith.. so to guarante their safety.. they gave the money to keith and Dave to vote off Beau.. Actually.. this benefited more for the "original" than the "barbies".. because they really wanted Beau ouT. What I dont understand is.. why didn't Dave and Keith go to Beau and team up and get rid of Alex or Scott ?

    2. King and Queen. This was part luck, part strategy. But DCKT made sure to get the right people (at the time) nominated, as Charla and Keith (at the time) were more vulnerable and less likely to be voted than Dave and Tara (Tom and Tara really got along at this point)
    Yeah.. it was part luck.. part strategy.. Alex made a mistake to vote for Tara rather than Amy. But I still didn't understand the decision to vote off Kristen than Amy..

    No, Ruben, up until this past week, which I will admit I thought was rigged, DCKT did use a fair bit of strategy. Fox certainly changed the rules quite a bit, but until last night they did so with enough advance notice to the guest that any of the guests, had they been working together and using their head, could have turned them in their favor. There was some luck involved, but no more lucky than the original guests were to be the first ones cast.
    I think the paradise hotel is rigged every since the very beginning.. TPTB will do what it takes.. to make the show more "entertaining".. Therefore.. I don't think we should give as much credit for DCKT to plot their survival.. rather.. TPTB help them along the way.
    "Charla is intelligent and beautiful and I just felt really stupid for picking ... for, you know... liking someone that wasn't available really.. certainly not to me." Quote from Dave (Paradise Hotel).

  8. #58
    FORT Regular calhoun's Avatar
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    Thanks YA

    Ruben, having read your post, I don't think our views on how the game has been played are that far apart (just whom we support). I too agree that the Originals, or at least some of them, were strategizing, and I think that they have every right to band together now as a strategy. What I don't like is the sense of moral superiority that they have when they do it ("We have to band against DCKT in order to win" is fine with me; "We have to band against DCKT because they play unfairly and are generally evil people" I have a problem with). I also agree that Fox did rig it, but not necessarily (again, until this past episode) to make sure that DCKT did well. They just wanted to put in twist and turns to generate conflict, whatever form that conflict took. I still think that DCKT deserve some credit for taking the most advantage of those twists. Oh, and I also hated when Tara picked Amanda. I was ticked.

    Regarding casino night, just becuase you don't agree with the strategy doesn't mean that there wasn't a strategy there. I'm not sure why Keith decided that Beau was a better target than Alex or Scott (I remember hoping that they would pick Alex at the time). Here are some possible reasons though: (1) Keith was afraid that there was no way, even pooling his money with Beau or Scott, that he would have enough to beat Alex (or, relatedly, that he would have more trouble convincing Beau; (2) to create dissent among the originals when Amy found out that her money was used to kick Beau off; (3) he figured that Alex was an easier target later in the game, or that kicking Scott off at that point was too risky a move to get everyone to go along with it.

  9. #59
    FORT Regular Paprika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Chick
    I hate to say it but if those four get the boot, then i'd probably stop watching it since the rest are idiots.

    Amen to that! I'll go as far as to say that if Charla goes, most of the value of the show is lost to me. Who wants to watch Amy scream at everyone unless Charla's not there to balance things out?

  10. #60
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    Vote the "Originals" out

    DTKC needs to stick together all the way. Amy's attitude should of got her voted off along time ago. Thanks for the rules, they got rid of zack. Kristen shouldn't of talked amy to stay. "originals" are the only ones not playing the game.

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