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Thread: Dance Moms on Lifetime

  1. #21
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    That Black woman looks nothing like Michelle Obama. It's a shame that some people will tag a person as a look-alike, basically, because of the skin color.

    I thought the headband segment was hilarious! What I found most impressive is that the young lady kept going and didn't appear to miss a step, especially when it was over her eyes!!! I was very proud for her!

    And I'm guessing that the woman's students don't want to leave her, even with her being a serious taskmaster. If they did, they'd whine and complain to their mothers and be jerked, no doubt.

    I think we are too quick to mollycoddle our children in this day and age. I don't want to see them abused, but there is firmness lacking in our society today. They are learning more lessons with this woman than just dancing.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I don't know that some of those mothers would listen if their kids did complain. Certainly the little girl who burst into tears and had to leave the room complaining she didn't feel well got no reaction from her mother other than surprise that she would ever leave a dance lesson, since she never had before. Well, gee, maybe that's your first clue something is wrong--the kid's doing something completely out of the ordinary for her.

    I agree that sometimes children are catered to way too much, but I've never learned well in an environment where people are shouting at me. Didn't work for me as a child and doesn't work for me as an adult either, because I'm a shade sensitive to increases in volume--overly loud music, overly loud voices etc. I'm afraid what these kids could be learning from this woman (and some of the moms as well--the teacher isn't the only one at fault here) is that it's okay to shout and carry on and shove people out of the room if you're the one in charge. It's also alright to talk to others in a demeaning fashion if you're the one in charge (the ridiculousness of telling other adults to use their "library voices" when it's not unusual for people to be talking or laughing while waiting in line at a hotel registration desk, especially if they're enthusiastic about an upcoming event). If the dance teacher were a math teacher or a history teacher or an English teacher, she'd never get by with that kind of behavior with students or parents. Why should teachers of competitive sports/teams be allowed so much more leeway in the behavior they model for the children they teach?

    I have no problem with teachers or coaches expecting disciplined behavior or being strict or expecting those in their charge to work to the best of their ability and to challenge them to improve insofar as they are able to do so (not everyone's going to be a great dancer, no matter how hard they try, but they can get to be better dancers than they were--I had a voice teacher once who said that not everyone can learn to be a great singer, but most people can learn to sound pleasant if they work hard enough at it). I just think you can do that without all the temperamental outbursts and without acting like it's a huge failure if the team doesn't come in first every time. Part of competing is learning to lose gracefully as well as win graciously. And really, I don't know how many teams were there, but they took a third and a first on one week's worth of practice. That's actually pretty good. I'm sure there were plenty of teams there that didn't do that well. Why couldn't the coach point out where they could improve while still congratulating them for doing as well as they did for the first time out with new routines?

  3. #23
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    I have no problem with teachers or coaches expecting disciplined behavior or being strict or expecting those in their charge to work to the best of their ability and to challenge them to improve insofar as they are able to do so (not everyone's going to be a great dancer, no matter how hard they try, but they can get to be better dancers than they were--I had a voice teacher once who said that not everyone can learn to be a great singer, but most people can learn to sound pleasant if they work hard enough at it). I just think you can do that without all the temperamental outbursts and without acting like it's a huge failure if the team doesn't come in first every time. Part of competing is learning to lose gracefully as well as win graciously. And really, I don't know how many teams were there, but they took a third and a first on one week's worth of practice. That's actually pretty good. I'm sure there were plenty of teams there that didn't do that well. Why couldn't the coach point out where they could improve while still congratulating them for doing as well as they did for the first time out with new routines?
    I was trying to even think of a time that ANY of my dance teachers raised their voice and only came up with ONE time. It was a ballet teacher who got upset with the class because no one was paying attention when he was teaching us a combination that wasn't terribly difficult, but the arms were unusual. Everyone was doing it with "the usual" arms for various positions, instead of how he taught it. Now, I was never the best in class, but I did happened to have worked on the combination with him before class, so I really knew it well. He basically stopped everyone mid-combination and then made me do it on my own to show them how he wanted it done. I remember everyone being a bit surprised, because he was normally a really mellow guy and it was clear that he was pretty pissed off. He was totally right, BTW, but it was still surprising....and he didn't speak to us like Abby speaks to those little girls and we were teenagers.

    What I really hope for these girls is that Abby's behavior and the pressure being placed on them by their mothers doesn't make them hate dance. There's nothing better than the feeling of knowing that your body will do exactly what you want it to - like you can do anything. Ultimately, dancing should be joyful and I hope these adults don't ruin that for these little girls. I can remember how it felt and I still miss it.
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  4. #24
    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Quote Originally Posted by prhoshay View Post
    And I'm guessing that the woman's students don't want to leave her, even with her being a serious taskmaster. If they did, they'd whine and complain to their mothers and be jerked, no doubt.

    I think we are too quick to mollycoddle our children in this day and age. I don't want to see them abused, but there is firmness lacking in our society today. They are learning more lessons with this woman than just dancing.
    The mothers wouldn't listen. They are too busy trying to live their own failed dreams out through their daughters. One of the girls, the 16? year old one, said she didn't want to do it. Her mother is forcing her to keep going. Another one, Vivi's mom, said that she would "slit her wrists" if her daughter said she wanted to do something else.

    About coddling children, agree 100 million % (trademark Randy J lol). Is it really any wonder that so many fail at life? They don't achieve any of their dreams, goals, aspirations because they are not pushed. There is nothing wrong with pushing your child and being firm. The trick is knowing when to back the heck off. Most kids are naturally lazy, motivate them and get them going and they will learn a very valuable life lesson (about working hard to achieve your own personal level of greatness).

    I think this whole kinder, gentler notion is a huge failure and it irritates the heck out of me.

    Before everybody flames me, think about it. How many times have you personally seen a child acting up in public? How many times have you watched the parent leaning over and saying in a soft and gentle voice "Now Timmy, is this the way we behave in public? Is this using your inside voice?" or some other type of "gentle" cajoling (aka begging) their child to behave. To which the child laughs and continues on because they know there is no real consequence to their bad behavior.

    Again, too much coddling going on. Like Proshay, I am by no means saying it is OK to abuse a child (verbally, physically, emotionally). I am saying that perhaps society has swung that pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

    I have watched this episode TWICE and I've yet to see anything that I would consider verbal abuse from Abby. Neither does my husband (although he did think Abby was an idiot and rather ridiculous, he laughed at her and mocked her and said he wouldn't have a daughter of his at her studio because she was a fool). The ones doing the abuse are the alcoholic mothers who are clearly in this only for the fame whoring.
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmony2000 View Post
    The mothers wouldn't listen. They are too busy trying to live their own failed dreams out through their daughters. One of the girls, the 16? year old one, said she didn't want to do it. Her mother is forcing her to keep going. Another one, Vivi's mom, said that she would "slit her wrists" if her daughter said she wanted to do something else.
    I think she was 13 years old, which is about the age when many girls "grow out" of dance.

    About coddling children, agree 100 million % (trademark Randy J lol). Is it really any wonder that so many fail at life? They don't achieve any of their dreams, goals, aspirations because they are not pushed. There is nothing wrong with pushing your child and being firm. The trick is knowing when to back the heck off. Most kids are naturally lazy, motivate them and get them going and they will learn a very valuable life lesson (about working hard to achieve your own personal level of greatness).

    I think this whole kinder, gentler notion is a huge failure and it irritates the heck out of me.

    Before everybody flames me, think about it. How many times have you personally seen a child acting up in public? How many times have you watched the parent leaning over and saying in a soft and gentle voice "Now Timmy, is this the way we behave in public? Is this using your inside voice?" or some other type of "gentle" cajoling (aka begging) their child to behave. To which the child laughs and continues on because they know there is no real consequence to their bad behavior.

    Again, too much coddling going on. Like Proshay, I am by no means saying it is OK to abuse a child (verbally, physically, emotionally). I am saying that perhaps society has swung that pendulum too far in the opposite direction.

    I have watched this episode TWICE and I've yet to see anything that I would consider verbal abuse from Abby. Neither does my husband (although he did think Abby was an idiot and rather ridiculous, he laughed at her and mocked her and said he wouldn't have a daughter of his at her studio because she was a fool). The ones doing the abuse are the alcoholic mothers who are clearly in this only for the fame whoring.
    I'll argue that there's a HUGE difference between coddling and just not yelling and berating. Being strict is not the same thing as yelling. My mother never raised her voice to me in public - she didn't need to. We had discipline in the home, but it was not based on mean comments or threats or shouting. My mother likes to say that there's no reason to yell at someone unless they're stepping off a curb and a car is coming! When someone yells at you, you stop listening and start figuring out how to defend yourself. It's a horrible way to communicate.

    I think Abby is a terrible teacher. You can be firm and gentle and still be effective. My mother confirmed that if she'd enrolled me in a class taught by a teacher like Abby, I wouldn't have even started crying before she'd have yanked me out of class.

    That moment backstage at the competition right before the girls went on and Abby got in that one girl's face and talked about someone falling into the orchestra pit was just nasty. It was also unnecessary. These girls seem to know what they're doing - it's the adults who are nitwits. The mothers and Abby are less mature than those little girls.

    Ultimately, when kids are that age, you should be making dance FUN! If they aren't having fun at it, what is the likelihood that they'll want to continue? Also, like I said before, such a tiny percentage of kids in dance classes will ever do it professionally. Abby being "professional" and preparing them for the real world is just as logical as yelling at a peewee football team and claiming you're preparing them for the NFL.

    Presumably, these kids are in the class because they love to dance (although with those mothers, that may not be the case). Motivating them doesn't seem to be a problem. You can give corrections and be firm without berating them.

    Did anyone else wonder if that little one (Maddi?) with the tummy ache just had a nervous stomach from all the pressure being put on her? She's obviously very talented, but being yelled at by her teacher, in addition to the expectations being placed on her by her mother....well, I'd have a tummy ache too!
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  6. #26
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I just looked up this show online and watched it because I have a good friend whose daughter competes nationally with this league or group or whatever they are called. She knew who Abby Lee Miller was - she does apparently have a good reputation. I think there are some dance instructors out there like her that have a philosophy of breaking them down to build them up. I would not gravitate toward that type of teaching myself. My friend's daughter has a teacher she really loves and her studio also has national champions under their belt. I definitely think the parents that are there at that studio are buying into Abby's teaching style and I don't have sympathy for that.
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I'm sure Abby wanted to do this show to bring herself more business and notoriety. Unfortunately for her, I think this show will do for her what Work Out did for Jackie Warner.
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  8. #28
    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I find it interesting going to dance forums and reading the comments from those who were at the competition and those who are students of Abby or who live in the same area and know her.

    The competition - everything was completely staged, right down to the curling iron incident. Evidently that scene with Abby and drunk mom yelling at each other? They actually had marks and acted it out. Also many parents are ticked off because they were lied to and told that this show was a documentary about dancing, they had no idea that it was going to be a mockery (their words) of their devotion to dance.

    The studio - evidently Abby only instructs the very best students. All the others work under the guidance of her assistants or older students and they basically never interact with her. Working with Abby is considered an honor by these students because she only works with her best. So they are willing to put up with her. They said that her personality is exactly the same, however, what the show isn't showing is that while she is hard on them...she also is just as quick to give out praise and hugs when they do it right. She is demanding but the girls LOVE her. That was the running theme through every single comment I read, they love her....they also think she's ridiculous. The one girl that said that she wants to laugh when Abby starts yelling? Seems to be the common reaction.

    Basically most of what we saw was made up and exaggerated drama for ratings.

    Oh and the moms on this show? Are the ones that ALL the other moms cannot stand, I found that funny. There were quiet a few moms upset that these are the moms chosen to represent them because they are the ones who are the worst stage moms.

    I still like this show but it helps knowing that what we are seeing isn't the way things really are (again this IS an accurate portrayal of Abby's personality but it's utterly one-dimensional, the woman does have some redeeming qualities).

    Oh and about her qualifications, on her site it states that she started her studio at the age of 14 mostly because she wanted trophies and couldn't get them herself so she started teaching others how to get them. She lives for her studio, it's her entire life, taking that into consideration...I can sort of see why she gets so worked up when she thinks her name is being tarnished (and I bet she...like some of the others...had no idea that the splicing/editing would make her look so bad).
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  9. #29
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I'm glad that you went out seeking opinions of people who have actually had interactions and experiences with Abby. I kind of expected that the opinions would be similar to what you found.

    Thank you, Harmony!
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

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  10. #30
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I think the problem with these girls is their mothers.
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

    When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, you know which one you hit by the one that yelps!

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