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Thread: Dance Moms on Lifetime

  1. #91
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I felt bad for Vivi in the photo contest tonight - she is a cute girl but the photo wasn't the best. Her mom though didn't pay attention to the rules and caused more harm than good. (Oh, newsflash Cathy... photographers do get quite irritated if you nitpick them, say they're not able to do their job and can intentionally shoot bad in response. I have seen it happen before and while I don't find it ethical, I can see why they do it sometimes).

    The whole afro thing was way out there - she looked cute in it (didn't like the leopard print outfit out of either myself - it wasn't flattering). Her mom however had a right to be offended at Abby when Abby was jumping to conclusions and going after the mom who - unlike the rest of the bitchy moms - was trying to argue her point fairly and nicely. Seriously Abby, the mom does have the right to complain and be concerned - there is no reason to act superior and all that when someone is addressing it politely.

    I do feel bad for her in regard to the one lady earlier on trying to not pay her bill and Abby threatening a lawsuit, but seriously... if Abby can't figure out the difference between true rudeness and ugliness and a polite debate where the complaintant is addressing it nicely, it's no wonder that her dance studio is having the issues it currently has. It will put her out of business to be succinctly - and sorry the show will not be at fault here.

    (Please note, I am not saying whether the mom was right or wrong in her issues or complaint, I"m saying that Abby needs to learn to treat the person with respect if said person is treating her with respect and not just jump to conclusions).

  2. #92
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Frankly, I had a really hard time following Abby's argument regarding why the African American girl (Mia? I'm sorry--I'm terrible with names and I haven't seen that many episodes of this show) needed to be doing particular kinds of routines. Sure, I suppose there are some auditions she might be sent on that would not be open to the other girls, since there are some roles that would call specifically for African American dancers. But there are also a lot of roles on Broadway and elsewhere that are now open to people of other races, even if they were originally written for Caucasians. There are people of all races in all types of dance nowadays. So shouldn't the little girl have experience with other types of dances too?

    Beyond that, Abby seemed to be undercutting her own argument about needing to prepare her for auditions for particular roles by pointing out all her flaws as a dancer. If she's that flawed, would she even make it through the first round of any audition? Is the girl or her mother even particularly interested in seeing her audition for musical theatre roles? I don't get the impression they're looking at dance so much as a career as an activity. If they are looking at it mostly as an activity, why not expose her to a wider variety of dance opportunities? Or, heck, compromise and come up with choreography that incorporates actual African dance movement/costumes into a solo. I'm guessing the mom would have fewer objections to that, so long as it was not the only kind of dancing her daughter ever did.

    It's just strange that Abby seems to think she has to have African-American themed solos when the other little girls are dancing to types of music that have nothing to do with their ethnicities.

    I also felt sorry for Vivi. Her mother is so pushy, and she really didn't bother to check the instructions for the contest. Was Vivi the most adorable little girl in the contest. I don't know. Maybe or maybe not. But her mother kept her from having any shot of winning. I did think it was funny, however, when Vivi just started posing on her own and ignored her mother, because all the sudden she started looking so much happier in the photos, as if she were finally, finally having some fun.

    Oh, and I did like the little moment between Maddie and her mom when her mom pinned the angel on her daughter's costume in honor of her mother, Maddie's grandma. That was sweet. Much as I think Maddie is a talented little girl, however, I almost wish she wouldn't win in the solo category once in a while, just to keep her from assuming she's always going to come out on top because no one ever does. Sometimes she seems like her attitude needs a little check, although I did like that she covered and said she hurt herself in the group number and that's why she was crying as opposed to blaming another little girl for messing up the dance. She did say immediately after the dance that they didn't do a good job, but she didn't single anyone out to blame, which is actually more adult behavior than some of the mothers exhibit.
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  3. #93
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden View Post
    Frankly, I had a really hard time following Abby's argument regarding why the African American girl (Mia? I'm sorry--I'm terrible with names and I haven't seen that many episodes of this show) needed to be doing particular kinds of routines. Sure, I suppose there are some auditions she might be sent on that would not be open to the other girls, since there are some roles that would call specifically for African American dancers. But there are also a lot of roles on Broadway and elsewhere that are now open to people of other races, even if they were originally written for Caucasians. There are people of all races in all types of dance nowadays. So shouldn't the little girl have experience with other types of dances too?
    You're close - it's Nia with an "N."

    And I agree that Abby's argument does not hold nearly as much water as it used to - there are African American characters in many movies and such as you mentioned that were originally seen as being "white only" characters. Heck the "Cinderella" Disney movie in recent years had Brandi, Whoopi Goldberg and the fairy godmother (name slips my memory at the moment) who were black, the king who was white and the prince who was ASIAN.

    Diversity has become rampant - mostly in a good way - in movies and theater. To me, if Abby was making sure to diversify Nia in several dances she'd be doing it right, but her actions at least what we're seeing don't match the comment.

    Beyond that, Abby seemed to be undercutting her own argument about needing to prepare her for auditions for particular roles by pointing out all her flaws as a dancer. If she's that flawed, would she even make it through the first round of any audition? Is the girl or her mother even particularly interested in seeing her audition for musical theatre roles? I don't get the impression they're looking at dance so much as a career as an activity. If they are looking at it mostly as an activity, why not expose her to a wider variety of dance opportunities? Or, heck, compromise and come up with choreography that incorporates actual African dance movement/costumes into a solo. I'm guessing the mom would have fewer objections to that, so long as it was not the only kind of dancing her daughter ever did.
    Nia and her mother I see doing this as an activity and if Nia wanted to leave she could. The others (or their moms) I sadly see as wanting to do this (or have their daughters do this) as a career - even if they don't like it.

    I personally think that Holly (Nia's mom) was more pissed that Nia was being seen as a stereotypical black woman in the "Laquifa" dance instead of learning a truer African American dance. Seeing Holly as a principal and just receiving a doctorate, I can see her irritation with her daughter essentially dancing to a song that glorifies a more ... uh... worldly woman. I think she'd been far less upset and probably would've complimented Abby on showing that variety. The steps are intricate, but overal easier to learn than some of the dances Abby is trying to teach Nia, but also ethnic dances are becoming quite popular in these competitions.

    It's just strange that Abby seems to think she has to have African-American themed solos when the other little girls are dancing to types of music that have nothing to do with their ethnicities.
    I think Abby is overcompensating - or at least I hope she is or at the very least expanding the opportunities. That said, she needs to make sure that Nia is learning all dances - and if she must insist on teaching Nia African-American inspired dances to make sure it's not just ones like Laquifa.

    I also felt sorry for Vivi. Her mother is so pushy, and she really didn't bother to check the instructions for the contest. Was Vivi the most adorable little girl in the contest. I don't know. Maybe or maybe not. But her mother kept her from having any shot of winning. I did think it was funny, however, when Vivi just started posing on her own and ignored her mother, because all the sudden she started looking so much happier in the photos, as if she were finally, finally having some fun.
    Vivi is indeed cute, and I think she's trying just to do it to have fun. I noticed her face fell when her mom made the comment about the photos being ugly. Cathy did mention she was referring to the photos - but to me it didn't feel like the photos specifically.

    And yes - I agree the ones where Vivi was herself she had better shots. I personally think she'd had a very good shot at winning a place - not win specifically but place - based on the judges comments had her mother NOT had her shoot in her costume. I think the judges were upset about the almost advertising that Vivi should've won because she obviously looks good in her outfit. (Which she does, but saying it here in the tone of Cathy's arrogance ).

    Oh, and I did like the little moment between Maddie and her mom when her mom pinned the angel on her daughter's costume in honor of her mother, Maddie's grandma. That was sweet. Much as I think Maddie is a talented little girl, however, I almost wish she wouldn't win in the solo category once in a while, just to keep her from assuming she's always going to come out on top because no one ever does. Sometimes she seems like her attitude needs a little check, although I did like that she covered and said she hurt herself in the group number and that's why she was crying as opposed to blaming another little girl for messing up the dance. She did say immediately after the dance that they didn't do a good job, but she didn't single anyone out to blame, which is actually more adult behavior than some of the mothers exhibit.
    Maddie I think may be to a point be edited or told to say something along the lines of being perfect in her dances and it coming off as arrogant. Overall I do think she is talented and has a potential future in dancing; however I agree that she needs to probably lose in order to see how to improve her dancing to look even better. I can tell the pressure to be perfect was showing in her "angel" dance routine. It was lovely, but there were double footings and other steps that were off. I have had this happen with my juggling - as I had won every talent show since the inception of it at the fair. Last year, I won second behind a good singer. I thought about it, realized that my routine was average to what I could really do and be inspired (I had done a routine I had done in previous years as an exhibition instead of letting my heart take over and learn a routine to "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century.") This year, I have the startings of a good routine and beginning Monday (as by then my fair projects will be done), I will be practicing every day until the show. I may still not win first, but I will be happier with my routine because I learned from last year (though it's not "Buck Rogers" - it will be a different choice of music I've found in the past year I like better).

  4. #94
    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I saw the whole Nia thing differently. I think Abby is not very eloquent and while she thinks she forceful and all that, she's not. She is really bad at getting her point across. Nia is not a good dancer. She's got horrible extensions, her hands and feet are a mess. When Abby said she was creating routines to play to Nia's strengths, I think she meant that when she watches Nia dancing, she sees that she is better suited to African style dances. I have no idea why she just didn't say that!

    When her "holier-than-thou" because I'm so "rich" mother started going on (I am really not liking Holly anymore, she's so snotty) about the stereotype, I would have cut her off and said "Here's the deal, your daughter is not a lyrical dancer. She can't do the routines, either because she doesn't have the talent or she doesn't have the drive to put in the hours needed in training. Either way, in order to give the other girls a fighting chance to win a competition and in order to give Nia a chance to actually win something, I'm doing routines that seem better suited to her abilities. If you think this is stereotyping? That's not my problem, how about devoting a little more time to her training?"

    Anyways, I can't stand people who complain and whine and yet do absolutely nothing to correct the problem. Nia needs to be in a non-competitive type of dance, something that will allow her to express her love of dancing without putting so much pressure on her.

    All that being said, I do have a problem with the afro and the name she gave Nia. That was a legitimate gripe from Holly but Abby should have responded differently with cold hard facts that Nia just isn't on the same level as the other girls. Heck, even Maddie's younger sister is a better dancer than Nia.
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  5. #95
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmony2000 View Post
    I saw the whole Nia thing differently. I think Abby is not very eloquent and while she thinks she forceful and all that, she's not. She is really bad at getting her point across. Nia is not a good dancer. She's got horrible extensions, her hands and feet are a mess. When Abby said she was creating routines to play to Nia's strengths, I think she meant that when she watches Nia dancing, she sees that she is better suited to African style dances. I have no idea why she just didn't say that!

    When her "holier-than-thou" because I'm so "rich" mother started going on (I am really not liking Holly anymore, she's so snotty) about the stereotype, I would have cut her off and said "Here's the deal, your daughter is not a lyrical dancer. She can't do the routines, either because she doesn't have the talent or she doesn't have the drive to put in the hours needed in training. Either way, in order to give the other girls a fighting chance to win a competition and in order to give Nia a chance to actually win something, I'm doing routines that seem better suited to her abilities. If you think this is stereotyping? That's not my problem, how about devoting a little more time to her training?"

    Anyways, I can't stand people who complain and whine and yet do absolutely nothing to correct the problem. Nia needs to be in a non-competitive type of dance, something that will allow her to express her love of dancing without putting so much pressure on her.

    All that being said, I do have a problem with the afro and the name she gave Nia. That was a legitimate gripe from Holly but Abby should have responded differently with cold hard facts that Nia just isn't on the same level as the other girls. Heck, even Maddie's younger sister is a better dancer than Nia.
    Really though, that dance Nia did had NOTHING to do with African dance. It was an over-the-top depiction of an African American stereotype. For as long as she's owned that studio, Abby isn't very good at communicating effectively with people.

    No, Nia isn't a strong dancer. She has bad feet and bad extension AND bad posture. Plus she doesn't seem to pick up the choreography as quickly as the other girls. The thing she seems to have going for her is rich parents who will pay for her classes. I feel for her, but I feel more for the other girls in the group who were hurt in that competition by Nia's performance.

    I don't see what the point of Cathy being there is, unless it's just to bring drama. If she thinks her studio is so much better, she needs to go back there. I always end up feeling bad for Vivi because it's clear she doesn't want to do any of this - she's just going it because her mother wants her to do it. I hope that Cathy watches the show and wakes up and lets Vivi quit if she wants.
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  6. #96
    Crazy Shutterbug Harmony2000's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical View Post
    Really though, that dance Nia did had NOTHING to do with African dance. It was an over-the-top depiction of an African American stereotype. For as long as she's owned that studio, Abby isn't very good at communicating effectively with people.

    No, Nia isn't a strong dancer. She has bad feet and bad extension AND bad posture. Plus she doesn't seem to pick up the choreography as quickly as the other girls. The thing she seems to have going for her is rich parents who will pay for her classes. I feel for her, but I feel more for the other girls in the group who were hurt in that competition by Nia's performance.
    Their routine was actually pretty good, I think if Nia hadn't completely messed it up then they probably would have won. I can't help but wonder if the reason the dance Nia did seemed so odd may have been because Nia simply couldn't do the dance that Abby originally created? I'd be willing to bet that the simple dance we saw was not what Abby originally had in mind.

    Poor Vivi - the other girls need to wear shirts that say "Free Vivi".

    That photographer should be ashamed of himself. He was unprofessional with the crappy photos he turned in. However, if Cathy was paying the man then why didn't she approve the final submissions? I found that sort of odd. What else I found odd was the way these women seem to like each other one moment and hate each other the next, the drama on this show is so manufactured.

    If there is a second season, I hope they ditch the moms and just focus on the daughters and their dancing. I find that so much more interesting. The moms are actually turning me off this show but then I think of the sweet smiles of Maddie, Chloe, Brooke, and Nia and I watch again. I like these young girls.
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  7. #97
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    The show is called "Dance Moms" for a reason.
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  8. #98
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Yeah, they're never going to have a show that focuses on the girls and doesn't feature all of that mama drama. Some people would watch it, but either the networks don't believe that or they think more people would watch the drama, and who's to say they're wrong?

    I suspect the only reason Cathy is on this show is to drum up business for her own dance studio, which apparently is much better than Abby's studio. She's just so obnoxious, I can hardly watch her - she usually gets muted because her voice just grates. Either Vivi is going to turn into her mother, or run as far from her as she can once she is old enough to go.... and I can't say I blame her. Cathy seems to have no clue who her daughter really is.

    Melissa seems to be really in tune with Maddie. I cringed a bit when she told an emotional Maddie to act like an adult, because she only EIGHT, but I think they generally have a good relationship. It's also clear that Maddie's doing exactly what she wants to do - she seems very self-motivated.
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  9. #99
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    Quote Originally Posted by Harmony2000 View Post
    That photographer should be ashamed of himself. He was unprofessional with the crappy photos he turned in. However, if Cathy was paying the man then why didn't she approve the final submissions? I found that sort of odd. What else I found odd was the way these women seem to like each other one moment and hate each other the next, the drama on this show is so manufactured..
    As someone who does photography for a living, I personally think that part of the reason the photos were bad was because CATHY was directing the shot. Some of the compositions that he created were actually quite good and fun, but the poses felt forced because Cathy wanted Vivi to pose in certain ways. If the photographer had guts he'd told the mom to step away, tell Vivi to have fun, maybe tell some jokes to get her to genuinely laugh and shoot while she's laughing or having fun. Those tend to be more natural, which is what we saw with the other headshots of the costume contest. (BTW, if I had a mother like Cathy do this, I would ask her politely to please stop first, explaining that I could get much better shots if Vivi wasn't being posed, and if she harped - most likely, I would be willing to not do the photoshoot and not take her money).

    Then again - I think Vivi lost more because she was in costume instead of it being a normal headshot like we saw the other photos look like.

  10. #100
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Moms on Lifetime

    I expect to see Maddie as prima ballerina in somebody's company!
    jenniferboston1 likes this.
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

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