Sister Wives

[mindy384]

So, my first uneducated reaction is "why don't these guys just remain single and sleep with a lot of girls?" I'm guessing that has to be a common thought for people who are not accustomed to this lifestyle choice and we see it as a way for a guy to assert control and have his share of sexual freedom. I would love to hear from people like JD and others who can explain even more because I find it so interesting and would like to explore the motivation for the guys.... For me, I think Kody comes off as a child, everything about him screams teenage boy, from his laugh to his mannerisms and need for attention, I think he is an immature man simply enjoying the fact that he comes from a group that promotes this type of behavior. BUT--I could be absolutely wrong. Like I said, I would love to get more perspectives on this.

And, I should also say that I know that this lifestyle is "illegal" in many states and countries but I could care less how many people decide to marry each other. What I do find quite interesting is how the pendulum for freedom of choice swings when we discuss things such as equality--and groups outside of our constructs become focal points. Consider how we feel about practicing homosexuals and polygamists. I think we would find more people who support gay marriage, which I find especially intriguing. Obviously, I know a lot of people associate polygamists with forced child marriage, forced marriages in general, have questions about the quality of life for children...I also know many people view them as members of a cult...and these are all talking points which I would love to discuss as well.

Ahhh--so interesting! And to think I just started watching today!

[maude~flanders]

But are women really choosing polygamy because that is what they truly want? Or, are they "choosing" it because they think it is their only choice to get to "Celestial Heaven"? I mean, how many of them would choose to share their lover if they didn't have to, because of religious doctrine? It's no different than any other person who does self-destructive actions because their religion guaranteed them heaven because of it. To me, that is the heart of the problem with the argument that adults should be able to choose their lifestyle, and it shouldn't be under legal restrictions. I don't think it is the same in the case of homosexuality. In general, homosexuals choose their lifestyle based upon deep feelings that they cannot deny, not because some religion told them they must be gay to get to heaven - so that really is their true choice. But, when people are choosing to do something that is not what they truly want inside, because of religious guilt and pressure, is that the same?

[J.D.]

Ouch....jealousy is showing. But we were warned Christine would be the drama queen. She sure proved that tonight! Robyn slid into position on the sofa next to Kody and pushed the others out of the way. Ouch again.

I don't know.....while the "ladies" were shopping for rings, dresses, cake, etc., why was it so important that they hint that they are sister-wives? Why can't they be more vague? I think they are making some real big statements (for the cameras) that aren't usually necessary. Is this reality tv? No. The first three wives look enough like sisters that nothing need be said about the relationships. They seem to be shoving it down everyone's throats, which is unusual for the group. I also think there are enough polygamist-run businesses in that area it shouldn't even be an issue. The businesses that cater to these families are well-known to the families.

I think Meri may have chosen Robyn because she noticed Kody was interested in her and wanted to make him happy. She obviously regrets that now.

Plus Robyn is thin. That has to be a threatening. It seemed that early on Robyn has been treated more like a nanny than a girlfriend/finace. (Traipsing all 20 people into the hospital when the baby was born? That pissed me off for so many reasons.)

Watching the reception right now, and looking to see how many of the women are wearing flip-flops. Okay, I didn't see flip-flops, just several people who didn't know how to walk in real shoes.

Kody called the reception a "coming out party" which makes me think the guests were actually maybe extras? I have to agree, Mindy, Kody acts like a child. He's very controlling. He has 4 women believing they are all his wives, equally. The more women he has around him, the more childish he gets. It gets annoying...and I'd sure as hell not put up with his creepy personality even if I were his one and only wife. Bleh. (Like in the hospital, waiting for the baby to arrive...he says "I know you are but what am I?" What? Are you like 5 years old, you loser? )

As far as motivation on Kody's part...rather than remaining single and having several girlfriends, he just has a wife (one on paper) and several girlfriends. And blame it on the "religion", the girlfriends are welcomed into the wife's home for sexual and other purposes. I suppose that's what makes it legal in their eyes. I'm not clear how the common law marriage rules fit in....how they file their taxes, etc. would all fall into play there. I don't think any of them are on public assistance - these groups tend to have money.

I'm going to have to ponder this more, and hopefully get a chance to talk to my friend from that community soon to find out her opinions. I also talked to my friend (whom I referred to above as "friend 2") today, she came in and read the thread - I'll ask her if she has any input.

It's an interesting topic, too bad the characters have to be such weirdos.

[J.D.]

But are women really choosing polygamy because that is what they truly want? Or, are they "choosing" it because they think it is their only choice to get to "Celestial Heaven"? I mean, how many of them would choose to share their lover if they didn't have to, because of religious doctrine? It's no different than any other person who does self-destructive actions because their religion guaranteed them heaven because of it. To me, that is the heart of the problem with the argument that adults should be able to choose their lifestyle, and it shouldn't be under legal restrictions. I don't think it is the same in the case of homosexuality. In general, homosexuals choose their lifestyle based upon deep feelings that they cannot deny, not because some religion told them they must be gay to get to heaven - so that really is their true choice. But, when people are choosing to do something that is not what they truly want inside, because of religious guilt and pressure, is that the same?

What I was taught as a Mormon from early on, is that only true believers and ardent practicers of the LDS/Mormon religion could go to the Celestial Kingdom (the top level of heaven - there are two other levels of heaven we, as Mormons, can attain, depending on our level of participation...I know....it's just weird). So as far as Mormons choosing to behave in a manner that will help them attain the highest level of exhaultation - yes, that is a choice. So would that carry over to polygamy? I don't know.

This did not apply to any other sects or religions. Now I don't know what the polygamists are taught in this regard. I don't know if they are taught from the Book of Mormon and it's supporting publications, or if they teach from the Bible...so maybe someone else here can shed some light on this.

I should probably reiterate here, I was raised as a Mormon, taught from the scriptures, but when I began to ask questions at around the age of 15/16, and could not get any clear answers, I walked away. (By walking away, I mean I quit attending church and stopped living by the rule of the Book of Mormon - not that I left the community.)

The level of secrecy is so high and unrighteous dominion is so prevalent, I could not and would not live in that environment.

One more comment - Utah Mormons are very different from Mormons outside the state. Mormons here tend to be much more aggressive and fanatical in their endeavors.

Sorry for the sermon. Hopefully others here can shed some light on or further insights into this way of life.

Okay, no more thread-hogging for me. Until next time.

[causingchaos]

I don't disagree with the lifestyle choice in general of polygamy or any open relationship. I did it for non-religious reasons when I did it and know many people who are non-religious that engage in various forms of this kind of relationship.

I'm just not comfortable watching this particular group on TV after seeing them on Oprah because they looked so not comfortable. Like they were insecure and settling.

[RSTARMARGS]

Okay so I have watched every episode of this show because I find it fascinating and like a car crash actually. And as a practicing member of the mainstream LDS church (NOT FLDS or fundamentalist Mormon as Kody & Co are) I feel I need to clarify a few things that people seem to be mushing together on here. The first was what I just stated...mainstream LDS or Mormons are not polygamists! I think many of us are very sensitive about this issue because so many people get it wrong. FLDS and LDS are like Protestants and Catholics. The FLDS is an offshoot of the LDS church. The mainstream LDS church outlawed polygamy long ago. And when it was in effect it was a small percent of the population and as was mentioned before was after the LDS had crossed the plains and a lot of men had died (war, sickness, etc) and there were many widows. And a lot were taken in NAME only just to be provided for. Regardless there was a reason for this practice and there no longer is now, for whatever reason people have still chosen this practice. I truly believe these people think they do need to do this to get in to heaven, however that goes against MY beliefs. I do also think that this is much harder for the man than it's worth for just "sex with lots of women". I hardly think Kody is a pervert. He has taken on FOUR wives and is obviously providing for them with the help of some working wives. He has two Lexus' for crying out loud. And to be honest it's not like they are all cute and young or even were that cute when they were married. And he obviously has to keep them all happy. As my husband commented..."the guy is nuts...it's hard enough keeping one wife happy." lol. And to be honest I think you can tell he really does love each of them, or maybe he's just a really good actor. There was some talk on the thread earlier about what "Mormons" believe. I don't think you can just go to the mainstream LDS website and post what it says there and assume these people believe that. Honestly I have no idea what they believe. If they believe in the Book of Mormon or something else. As with any offshoot, they are bound to come up with their own doctrines and practices. I think if you do want to know about LDS beliefs (not polygamists) you should go to LDS.org or Mormon.org to learn more. I did want to address that we do believe in three "degrees of glory" in our highest form of Heaven if you will, but no part of getting there has to do with polygamy. I in fact find it to be totally unnatural and weird. I would never ever want to share my husband. And I don't believe that our God would ask us to do that if we didn't want to. (In the past the culture was different and most women entered into polygamy happy to be provided for instead of being a widow or old maid--women couldn't work back then.) I know this was super long, but I just wanted to clarify some things. The only thing I do like about this show is they show what is real, unlike Big Love which just makes things up Ok that's all I have for now. Carry on.

[RSTARMARGS]

And, I should also say that I know that this lifestyle is "illegal" in many states and countries but I could care less how many people decide to marry each other. What I do find quite interesting is how the pendulum for freedom of choice swings when we discuss things such as equality--and groups outside of our constructs become focal points. Consider how we feel about practicing homosexuals and polygamists. I think we would find more people who support gay marriage, which I find especially intriguing. Obviously, I know a lot of people associate polygamists with forced child marriage, forced marriages in general, have questions about the quality of life for children...I also know many people view them as members of a cult...and these are all talking points which I would love to discuss as well.

Ahhh--so interesting! And to think I just started watching today!

I also find it very interesting to read what totally sickens some people... that this is much more abhorrent to people than homosexuality. I think that's odd and kind of judgemental. Obviously child marriage and abuse is horribly wrong, but in the case of Kody and Co where they are obviously consenting adults...how is it that much different from being in a homosexual relationship? People seem to be totally accepting of that. I just think these people on this show have made a choice for whatever reason. Who cares what they do if they mind their own business, pay for themselves and don't abuse people. The kids seem happy enough. It really is their choice. And it's not all that different from gay people, who don't currently have the right to get married in many states but still call themselves "married" or partnered and basically live a married lifestyle.

I don't know about these people's "clan" or religion but I know as a member of the LDS church I can assure you we are not a cult. I am not brainwashed and I am free to leave at anytime. No one polices me to go to church or believe what I do. I practice because I believe in the teachings of our church and I feel that in doing so I become a better person.

[Imperfect1]

Religious/cultural discussions aside, I found the last 2 'wedding' episodes to be somewhat disturbing, and interestingly, much more truthful in regard to the women's jealousies and insecurities. No matter how used to the idea of multiple wives they all are, I could see how hurt the first 3 wives were, and I could not help but feel for each of them. And I also couldn't help but think to myself while they were talking about (and trying to come to grips with) the 5 of them being together in years to come, that most likely there would be 6 of them, or 7, or 8, or. . .

[canuckinchile]

The problem a lot of people have is that this type of relationship is not an equal partnership. The male in this relationship is regarded as the head of the household and wields a lot of power (whether he uses it or not). I don't think the marriage of gay people, which in most of the educated world is NOT considered a choice anymore than heterosexuality is a conscious choice, is a viable comparison when you consider the dynamics of the relationship. If the argument is alluding that gay people make the choice and could remain celibate, I would like to point out if is a lot to ask a person to choose to be alone. This particular relationship being portrayed on TV shows reasonably strong women that have jobs, state they could leave at any time, etc. However, in general, this type of relationship smacks of the old days of women as chattel, and that is what irks me.

[chenoa333]

Does anyone know what Kody does for a living? He drives a very nice late model car (possibly a Lexus?) I can only guess as to how much it costs to feed that family each month. So whatever he does for work, he must be making some major bucks!
And how does a man with 4 wives and 16+ children find quality time for his kids?