Jon & Kate Plus Eight

[Veruka]

Originally Posted by luvsginger

Veruka - Thank you for clarifying, I did not read the book nor do I ever plan to. It's interesting that she was given fertility treatment for "fear" should could not conceive... I still think it is a little odd that any well respected, board certified doctor would treat a such a young couple (24 & 22) simply because they "feared" they couldn't conceive....I would think because of their age, he would suggest they try on their own for a period. I also did not realize that they were turned down for adoption because of their age. I didn't realize how quick the adoption process was, I always thought it took at least a year or years....like it did with my friends who have adopted children. But, like you mentioned....Kate wrote it in her book so it must be true and like I said I did not read the book so I don't know all the "facts".

For a couple who qualifies for adoption, the process can be quite long ... to get a child. If you apply for a given adoption program, and do not meet the requirements they've laid out to be a part of it, then the rejection would come quickly.

And the doctor did not treat them out of fear -- they sought help out of fear. Since she was a labor and delivery nurse, Kate had a pretty strong grasp of medicine surrounding child bearing, knew her own body, and had concerns. The first step in treatment -- as it is with any infertility case -- was to do tests on both of them. Those tests confirmed that yes, Kate was unable to conceive. No worries -- the doctor appears to have acted in a proper and ethical manner.

[Google]

 

[luvsginger]

Originally Posted by Veruka

No worries -- the doctor appears to have acted in a proper and ethical manner.

Oh, I am not worried....let's hope the doctor isn't!

[newshound]

Originally Posted by passiondiva

You are so right! It was Jon's responsibility to bathe the kids, dress the kids, and do the basic taking care of the kids.
If they were to get a divorce, who do you think would be the better parent?

I think that Kate has many, many flaws, but I don't think it's fair to paint Jon as the only parent who does any childcare duties. Yes, in previous seasons, it was Jon's job to give the baths, and maybe he plays with them with more ease than Kate does. But I don't buy the argument that she's a lazy mom. Even with nannies around, there would be many times when she would have to dress and feed the children. Plus, I don't think it can be underestimated how much work it takes (from both parents) to keep all of the septuplets safe through toddlerhood. It is very hard to be everywhere at once and toddlers can find danger within seconds. There are many things that Kate and Jon have done wrong, and I do think that the emotional repercussions of this show will not be good for these children. But, I think that both mom and dad are far from being abusive.

How much of the national discussion about Jon and Kate has to do with our very narrow and idealized notions about what mothers should be like? I think it's weird how quick we are as a culture to demonize moms. I was paging through one of the tabloids this weekend (US Weekly, maybe) and there was a strange sidebar article showing Kate and Nadya Suleman (aka Octomom''s) pictures and talking about how both of these moms of multiples like to get french manicures, which the magazine reported takes about an hour to get and have to be maintained weekly. I was like, "SO?" Is there something wrong with a mom taking one hour a week of time away from her kids? Were they suggesting that all moms who get their nails done are supposed to feel guilty about it? Would we ever give men a hard time for golfing an hour a week?

[newshound]

Made a mistake in my last post. oops--sextuplets, not septuplets! The last thing they need to be is Jon & Kate Plus Nine.

[JustJuls]

Amen Newshound. I completely agree. Great post!

[psycobabe007]

Kate looks to be a perfectionist to the nth degree. I would not doubt that she and Jon both would be dressing the kids, bathing the kids, etc. I do see it taking Kate twice as long as perhaps maybe Jon would to put one of the girls hair up, for example, because she wouldn't like it the first time or maybe its crooked or whatever. This would not be a problem with one or two kids, but eight could get you slowed down considerably.

[Veruka]

Originally Posted by newshound

I think that Kate has many, many flaws, but I don't think it's fair to paint Jon as the only parent who does any childcare duties. Yes, in previous seasons, it was Jon's job to give the baths, and maybe he plays with them with more ease than Kate does. But I don't buy the argument that she's a lazy mom. Even with nannies around, there would be many times when she would have to dress and feed the children. Plus, I don't think it can be underestimated how much work it takes (from both parents) to keep all of the septuplets safe through toddlerhood. It is very hard to be everywhere at once and toddlers can find danger within seconds. There are many things that Kate and Jon have done wrong, and I do think that the emotional repercussions of this show will not be good for these children. But, I think that both mom and dad are far from being abusive.

How much of the national discussion about Jon and Kate has to do with our very narrow and idealized notions about what mothers should be like? I think it's weird how quick we are as a culture to demonize moms. I was paging through one of the tabloids this weekend (US Weekly, maybe) and there was a strange sidebar article showing Kate and Nadya Suleman (aka Octomom''s) pictures and talking about how both of these moms of multiples like to get french manicures, which the magazine reported takes about an hour to get and have to be maintained weekly. I was like, "SO?" Is there something wrong with a mom taking one hour a week of time away from her kids? Were they suggesting that all moms who get their nails done are supposed to feel guilty about it? Would we ever give men a hard time for golfing an hour a week?

Very well said. I think that you're absolutely right about the narrow view of the ideal mom. You make a very fair point -- we accept a variety of models for fatherhood (perhaps because with so many deadbeat dads, we're just relieved when a dad is involved with his kids?) but accept one model for mothers. At the end of the day, isn't the outcome what really matters? Some moms are lovey dovey and nurturing, others are tougher and more focused on teaching, others are the providers more than nurturers, etc etc etc. If the kids are loved, confident, and grow into productive adults, then didn't the job done work?

I think this was illustrated in two scenes from Monday's show which generated a lot of chatter -- The first was Joel thanking Kate forthe party, and having to say it more than once. Many saw a self-absorbed mother ignoring her kid. I went backto watch it, trying to figure out how I missed it. when I did, I saw a mother talking to another mother who either did not hear a soft-spoken child, or was trying to show respect to the other mother by nto interrupting her immediately to talk to her child. The second scene was Jon talking to Alexis when she told him she didn't want him to go away so much. Jon's response was that sometimes daddy's have to work. Some saw that as a loving father who wanted to be with his kids, but his manipulative estranged wife got in the way. Given that Jon does not work, I saw it as a dad whose caught up enough in his own wants and personal needs right now that he's okay with his children just having to learn how to accept missing him.

[Hobbes07]

Originally Posted by Veruka

Those tests confirmed that yes, Kate was unable to conceive.

I don't understand... PCOS (or even infertility) does not mean a woman can't conceive naturally. In a lot of cases a woman can it just may take a bit longer. Did she have something else wrong with her? (not that I expect you to know the ins and outs of her reproductive health).

It just seems odd to me that a respectable Dr would jump to IUI or IVF for such a young couple. I know many women with PCOS who have gone on to conceive naturally. Though with Kate's (admitted) control freak ways I suppose she could have pushed IUI or IVF (which ever one she did).

I'm dealing with infertility right now. I know more than I care too about this crap and I think I would be a little put off if my Dr jumped to IUI/IVF in the beginning of my conceiving 'adventure'. Though I'm leary of any Dr who jumps to extremes right away.

[Veruka]

Originally Posted by Hobbes07

I don't understand... PCOS (or even infertility) does not mean a woman can't conceive naturally. In a lot of cases a woman can it just may take a bit longer. Did she have something else wrong with her? (not that I expect you to know the ins and outs of her reproductive health).

It just seems odd to me that a respectable Dr would jump to IUI or IVF for such a young couple. I know many women with PCOS who have gone on to conceive naturally. Though with Kate's (admitted) control freak ways I suppose she could have pushed IUI or IVF (which ever one she did).

I'm dealing with infertility right now. I know more than I care too about this crap and I think I would be a little put off if my Dr jumped to IUI/IVF in the beginning of my conceiving 'adventure'. Though I'm leary of any Dr who jumps to extremes right away.

I don't recall the technical terms and explanations of Kate's health. She talked about it at the appearance I attended, and I'm working from my recollection of what she was dealing with. She stated exactly the condition she has (I would guess she names it in the book too) but I wasn't taking notes or anything. Going through infertility treatments now, you obviously know all too well that there are a multitude of causes for infertility, and each has varying degrees of permanence ... and varying degrees of treatment depending on the individual. In some cases, conception is simply more difficult. In others, it is impossible (ie if a woman's body does not produce eggs, she will NOT get pregnant). I think that for anyone who wants more details of Kate's specific case, her first book would probalby be a good resource.

[girlsmom]

I just cannot believe that this couple would not have broken up years ago had it not been for the family business--the SHOW and all that it has brought them. Initially it was to support the family, NOT as Kate laughably tries to insist, to let the nosy neighbors see what it's like inside the house. Yes, there was interest in them, but the show existed purely as a money machine imo. The fact that there is so much at stake to maintain the facade of a functioning family would necessitate the ruse that Jon and Kate were "together" in the true sense of the word. I'm also stunned that this very ordinary, in every way but multiples, couple is all over the media. This is concerning because it translates into big money for TLC and thus the continuation of this car wreck of a show. I feel very sorry for all those poor children.