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Thread: The Duggar Family

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    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Michelle does "helpmeet" training with her girls from the time of infancy. If you want to read some really appalling "training" procedures, they are all available to read online. One of the very first methods is to present the baby girl with a toy, then slap her hands when she reaches for it. Over and over. It teaches her that her own needs must be subjugated to the needs of the one in authority over her. These preverbal instructions are so deeply bred into the girls that they are indoctrinated before they can even ideate. You could call it brainwashing, I suppose.

    As parents, I find these people manipulative and shockingly selfish. Watching them is like watching exotic zoo creatures - they are that strange. I guess that's why they are on reality TV. I think Michelle Duggar makes Kate Goslin look like Mother of the Year.
    Last edited by Poppy Fields; 11-11-2011 at 08:59 AM.
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  2. #1842
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    That honestly made me sick to my stomach. It's appalling.
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    FORT Fanatic jenniferboston1's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    I wonder how they carve out intimate time? Sorry if it's too crude, but HOW?

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by tears.and.rain View Post
    I'm a feminist too. I don't question Michelle's right to continue to have babies. I question whether or not it *is* right - morally that is. And I question whether her children's rights are being met, particularly that of the older girls, who are forced - yes, forced - to essentially be teenaged mothers. What about their right to choose? They have not chosen to have babies yet, so why should they be forced to care for them? I fully believe that *every* woman has a right to choose whether she wants to carry or care for a baby.

    And yes, I believe that the older Duggar girls are being forced into this lifestyle. They do not have a viable way out. They have no education, they have no knowledge of the outside world, and worst of all, they are pair bonded with babies that are not their own. They have come to provide for Michelle's youngest children in the way Michelle should, and therefor likely have bonded with them in a maternal way as well. They cannot simply abandon those bonds, no matter how unfair their situation may be. Yes, in theory they have a choice - but in theory alone. And if it's only theoretical, does it really matter?
    I so agree. Nothing is stacked in the favor of these girls leaving. First of all, they haven't been given an education that would enable them to find a job they could support themselves on. I also don't think JimBob and Michelle would support them in that choice. After all, even the choice of a husband is left to JimBob. I think also religion plays into this. If living this life style guarantees Heaven, it would make it even harder to leave.
    I may be looking at ths wrong, and I hope I am. Maybe the girls are happy in this life style. From comments they have made, though, their happiness just doesn't enter into the picture. They've been taught that they are the least important, so it's not a huge leap to think that they'd make life decisions based on what makes them the happiest. Just so sad

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    What happens when the older girls marry, leaving behind the babies they've essentially mothered? Even if they're not infants anymore when their mother figure leaves, it must still feel as if they're being abandoned. And doesn't it bother Michelle at all that her children may have stronger parent-child bonds with each other than with her or her husband?

    As much as I feel for the girls in the family--and my heart goes out to them--I also wonder what message it sends to the boys and how it will affect their lives and their choice of spouses. How many women are they going to be able to find who would be willing to raise kids in the same way? Or would they not want to follow in their parents' footsteps? Heck, would they even be looking for women? I suppose with twenty kids, there's certainly the statistical possibility that one or more of them may be gay/lesbian. Imagine growing up gay in that family.
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    FORT Fogey sclilred1's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by jenniferboston1 View Post
    I wonder how they carve out intimate time? Sorry if it's too crude, but HOW?
    I would imagine they have plenty of time for that since neither raise their own children. The older kids are responsible for the younger ones. Michelle also turns the babies over to the older children after she has had enough of them. Then she is pregnant with the next one so she has A baby to play with.

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    I honestly wonder what she's gonna do when she can no longer have babies. Her whole mindset is to have yet another one. I'd hope she'd actually get involved w/ her kids, but I've hoped for a whole lot of things that haven't happened. When your worth is tied up in having babies, you're pretty much done when you can have no more.

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    FORT Fogey Duckyface's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy Fields View Post
    Michelle does "helpmeet" training with her girls from the time of infancy. If you want to read some really appalling "training" procedures, they are all available to read online. One of the very first methods is to present the baby girl with a toy, then slap her hands when she reaches for it. Over and over. It teaches her that her own needs must be subjugated to the needs of the one in authority over her. These preverbal instructions are so deeply bred into the girls that they are indoctrinated before they can even ideate. You could call it brainwashing, I suppose.

    As parents, I find these people manipulative and shockingly selfish. Watching them is like watching exotic zoo creatures - they are that strange. I guess that's why they are on reality TV. I think Michelle Duggar makes Kate Goslin look like Mother of the Year.
    That's shocking Poppy, are you sure that the Duggars do this? Now I don't watch the show much, but they always seem gentle and loving with their children and each other. I may not approve of their methods of living and raising their children, but had always thought they were as entitled to it as I am to my choices, but if they are actually hitting their young girls when it doesn't even involve something endangering their lives, like running into the street, I find that completely appalling. It's hard for me to imagine Michelle hitting her children like that.

  9. #1849
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    From what I had read they do some type of a training with ALL their kids, but I don't remember that they hit them. I thought that they use a stern voice.
    "To err is human, to arr is a pirate"

  10. #1850
    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Before following the Duggars thread here I had never heard of the cults described below. After reading about (and then researching them thoroughly), I think it's obvious that the Duggars espouse them and their teachings, including the methods of training babies to be obedient. The women in these cults are actually proud that they don't need playpens. They put the baby on a blanket on the ground, and the baby stays PUT on that blanket, just as he/she has been trained to do. The hand slapping "selflessness" training I described earlier is from "No Greater Joy."

    "Training does not necessarily require that the trainee be capable of reason…”[Pearl & Pearl, Chapter 1.]
    "To Train Up A Child," a book which Michelle has used and recommended. Trust me - if corporal punishment isn't something you are heavily invested in, this book will literally make you sick.

    While I've never been to the Duggars' home, and while I doubt that TLC would ever film such practices, I believe it's rational to conclude that the Duggars embrace this kind of training. They embrace absolutely everything else these cults espouse. It ensures that your children won't rebel in adolescence, and will cheerfuly obey your every rule.

    There are a number of good educational sties to research these practices, and other practices of these cults. A good description of how this kind of "training" progresses from infancy to young adult can be found here:

    Quiverfull Daughters: The Making of a Helpmeet « No Longer Quivering ca

    You can start with the links on the Duggars own website if you are interested in reading further. Just follow their quick links tabs.

    I include the following because it gives an overview of leadership and doctine:

    I include the Duggars in the groups listed because they espouse these views and teachings. Their website lists Bill Gothard’s Advanced Training Institute (ATI), Doug Phillips’ Vision Forum Ministries, David Barton’s Wallbuilders, and many other links under “Essential Faith-Building Tools.” (David Barton is a revisionist historian who is revered by many conservative, home school, fundamentalist Christians. He has no training as a historian, holding a degree in religious education from Oral Roberts University, and his teachings are heavily criticized by academic historians.) Because the Duggars advocate these views and teachings, I think it’s safe to conclude that they follow them.

    I refer to this collective movement as a “cult,” which someone noted is a very strong word. Many definitions of the word “cult” are rather broad, but I think most of us are referring to the 6th dictionary definition when we think of a cult:

    a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

    I believe this matches the Duggars and others within the ATI/Vision Forum/Quiverfull movement to a T. There are many others in this movement – Michael Pearl of No Greater Joy Ministries comes to mind – but ATI (or their parent group, IBLP) and Vision Forum are the predominant groups. They certainly fit the cult definitions of being unorthodox, extra-biblical, extremist, and living under a charismatic leader, with Bill Gothard and Doug Phillips being their primary leaders.

    The Duggars have put a pretty face on this movement. The family everyone sees on television is attractive, fun, energetic, and happy.

    But many people in this movement aren’t as happy as they appear. They’re experiencing a private hell. There are numerous resources critiquing and exposing the Quiverfull movement in far greater detail than I ever could. One of the more extensive resources is No Longer Quivering, a website containing a collection of stories from women who have been part of the movement as wives, mothers, or daughters. These women now range from atheists and feminists to conservative and complimentarian Christians. What they all have in common is they have escaped the movement. Their stories are eye-opening and heart-breaking.
    The cult of the Quiverfull / ATI / Vision Forum movement, Duggars and all | Wide White
    Last edited by Poppy Fields; 11-13-2011 at 12:48 PM.

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