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Thread: The Duggar Family

  1. #1831
    Anarchist AJane's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by libgirl2 View Post
    And as I read somewhere, they pay there own way and ultimately it's Michelle's body.
    Because I have very strong feelings about the right to choose, I have to agree with you - and that's a bitter pill for me to swallow, because I personally disapprove of the way Michelle and her husband parent. I believe that if you choose to be a parent, your motivation should come from a desire to love, cherish and teach a new life, not because you belong to an organization whose mandate appears to compel a woman to birth as many children as possible until her body gives out. Of course a woman should be able to control what happens to her own body, but I also believe she should respect that body as well. Her husband should do the same.

    Not to mention "good parenting" doesn't usually include cashing in your kids to be on a reality show and to get a new house. It's more palatable to viewers if these people perform their reality-show lives under the guise of religion, because if you belong to one you must be a good person, right? Just more lip service to "values". In that sense, Michelle Duggar is Kate Gosselin without the high heels and dance lessons.
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  2. #1832
    FORT Fogey libgirl2's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by AJane View Post
    Because I have very strong feelings about the right to choose, I have to agree with you - and that's a bitter pill for me to swallow, because I personally disapprove of the way Michelle and her husband parent. .
    That is the crux of it. It isn't our choice. We can disagree vehemently with them, but this is the way they live. If you think about it, how different is it from the Amish who have large (maybe not in the 20s, but 10s isn't unusual) families and whose children only get an 8th grade education? The only difference is many groups allow their children their "running around" time prior to baptism. The Duggar children do not get this time.
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  3. #1833
    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by libgirl2
    And as I read somewhere, they pay there own way and ultimately it's Michelle's body.
    Quote Originally Posted by AJane
    Because I have very strong feelings about the right to choose, I have to agree with you - and that's a bitter pill for me to swallow, because I personally disapprove of the way Michelle and her husband parent. I believe that if you choose to be a parent, your motivation should come from a desire to love, cherish and teach a new life, not because you belong to an organization whose mandate appears to compel a woman to birth as many children as possible until her body gives out. Of course a woman should be able to control what happens to her own body, but I also believe she should respect that body as well. Her husband should do the same.

    Not to mention "good parenting" doesn't usually include cashing in your kids to be on a reality show and to get a new house. It's more palatable to viewers if these people perform their reality-show lives under the guise of religion, because if you belong to one you must be a good person, right? Just more lip service to "values". In that sense, Michelle Duggar is Kate Gosselin without the high heels and dance lessons.
    The irony is that Michelle probably does not feel she owns her own body. It belongs to God (1) and Jim Bob (2). She lives in complete subservience to both, and is training her daughters to do the same.

  4. #1834
    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    I know several Amish families. Here is the difference: their kids can choose to do anything they want with their lives, including getting further education and living away from home, opting for a career, etc. and they will be accepted and loved by their families - until they choose to be baptized. After that, they must conform. If they never choose baptism, they are not judged for it. Many do not choose to be baptized until they are ready to marry.

    Also, the Amish are not "patriarchal" Chisitians like the Quiverfull and ATI cults. The first Amish women I met in this area are business owners. One owns a bakery, the other a deli. They are not related, but do live on land held communally by their respective families.

    It seems like a good life. I have been to visit one their family's dairy farms once and it was a great experience. Lots of laughter, great dining, beautiful children. Oh, that reminds me of another difference: the Amish people are extraordinarily gentle folks. They do not beat their kids with switches and paddles. Nor do they raise their hands to them.
    Last edited by Poppy Fields; 11-10-2011 at 02:02 PM.
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  5. #1835
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Another difference I find with Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar is that they put themselves on tv and public display. When you do that, I think it opens the door for people to view and express their feelings about you. And I grew up in a home with very similar teachings as the Duggars and I know it well. It's terrible. Yes, I smiled, went to church, sang, etc., because I never had much of a choice. The Duggar kids don't either.

    I can imagine it would be difficult for a young woman like their oldest daughter to set out on her own and become independent, work outside the home, or attend college, even if she wants to. They don't call it brainwashing for nothing.
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  6. #1836
    "SPYING" ButterflyFaery's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    I just can't imagine any of the older girls even wanting to have children when they get married....I know I wouldn't...I would feel like I had already raised a handful of them and would want a life of my own without children...can't speak for them
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  7. #1837
    FORT Fogey libgirl2's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy Fields View Post
    I know several Amish families. Here is the difference: their kids can choose to do anything they want with their lives, including getting further education and living away from home, opting for a career, etc. and they will be accepted and loved by their families - until they choose to be baptized. After that, they must conform. If they never choose baptism, they are not judged for it. Many do not choose to be baptized until they are ready to marry.

    Also, the Amish are not "patriarchal" Chisitians like the Quiverfull and ATI cults. The first Amish women I met in this area are business owners. One owns a bakery, the other a deli. They are not related, but do live on land held communally by their respective families.

    It seems like a good life. I have been to visit one their family's dairy farms once and it was a great experience. Lots of laughter, great dining, beautiful children. Oh, that reminds me of another difference: the Amish people are extraordinarily gentle folks. They do not beat their kids with switches and paddles. Nor do they raise their hands to them.
    There are a lot of people who criticize the Amish for not educating their children (on average) past 8th grade. Also, the women might not be subservient, but as many deep Christian religious people believe, the man is the head of the household and also their bishops and deacons are men. I don't have a problem with how they live, but the point I was trying to make is that there are people who look at how they raise there families and live their lives as something backward and odd. Its not the education they are against but the pride (hochmut) that can arise from it. And many religions do put the man as the head of the household etc.... I do know that they are good to their families , seem very happy on a whole but I'm sure you can find an ex-Amish person who could tell you stories. Humans are humans after all.

    But I digress.

    I think nobody will ever agree with the way they live their lives, just as many of us don't agree about the Kardashians, the Gosselins and all those others. I said before there are things I do like, and there are things I do not like.
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  8. #1838
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by libgirl2 View Post
    There are a lot of people who criticize the Amish for not educating their children (on average) past 8th grade. Also, the women might not be subservient, but as many deep Christian religious people believe, the man is the head of the household and also their bishops and deacons are men. I don't have a problem with how they live, but the point I was trying to make is that there are people who look at how they raise there families and live their lives as something backward and odd. Its not the education they are against but the pride (hochmut) that can arise from it. And many religions do put the man as the head of the household etc.... I do know that they are good to their families , seem very happy on a whole but I'm sure you can find an ex-Amish person who could tell you stories. Humans are humans after all.

    But I digress.

    I think nobody will ever agree with the way they live their lives, just as many of us don't agree about the Kardashians, the Gosselins and all those others. I said before there are things I do like, and there are things I do not like.
    If the children choose to go into secular society as Amish kids they are typically ostracized from the family in my limited experience with this population. It's not an easy choice but they are given the choice.

    The Duggar kids also have a choice just like any other person of the age of majority in the US. They can stay or they can go. Many people don't agree with their families and walk away with the risk of being ostracized even if not from a religious family. I don't see any forcing of anything at this point. The girls and the boys both have the right to leave if that is what they want to do. From the looks of it... that is not what they want to do.

    I'm a feminist. I believe women have the right to choose how they want to live their lives. If that means being a stay at home mom great. If that means going out and going to college that's fine too. If it means a part of a patriarchal culture that is fine too. Most major religions, especially Judeo-Christian ones, place women in a subservient role to me. I lived that life. It wasn't my thing and I have such moved on to something that fits me better. Do I look down on women who are in that life? Nope, because that is a choice they have the right to make for themselves.

    Michelle has made a choice with her husband that this is the life they adore and want to live. People argue that it affects the children but really when it comes down to it no one wants to have their own parenting and lifestyle dissected pertaining to children, as no one is perfect. It can be argued that anyone with children has made choices that will adversely affect them. And depending on what personal biases one holds anyone can look at someone with a lifestyle they don't like and call it horrible and screwing up the kids forever.
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  9. #1839
    FORT Fogey libgirl2's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    I just don't see Jim Bob or Michelle forcing the girls against their will do to anything. Yes they expect them to behave a certain way (as they were raised) but I don't see them being "made" to live a certain way. Do they know any better... maybe yes... maybe no... they get enough exposure to the world to see other choices... maybe they just don't choose them?
    "To err is human, to arr is a pirate"

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by causingchaos View Post
    I'm a feminist. I believe women have the right to choose how they want to live their lives. If that means being a stay at home mom great. If that means going out and going to college that's fine too. If it means a part of a patriarchal culture that is fine too. Most major religions, especially Judeo-Christian ones, place women in a subservient role to me. I lived that life. It wasn't my thing and I have such moved on to something that fits me better. Do I look down on women who are in that life? Nope, because that is a choice they have the right to make for themselves.

    Michelle has made a choice with her husband that this is the life they adore and want to live. People argue that it affects the children but really when it comes down to it no one wants to have their own parenting and lifestyle dissected pertaining to children, as no one is perfect. It can be argued that anyone with children has made choices that will adversely affect them. And depending on what personal biases one holds anyone can look at someone with a lifestyle they don't like and call it horrible and screwing up the kids forever.
    I'm a feminist too. I don't question Michelle's right to continue to have babies. I question whether or not it *is* right - morally that is. And I question whether her children's rights are being met, particularly that of the older girls, who are forced - yes, forced - to essentially be teenaged mothers. What about their right to choose? They have not chosen to have babies yet, so why should they be forced to care for them? I fully believe that *every* woman has a right to choose whether she wants to carry or care for a baby.

    And yes, I believe that the older Duggar girls are being forced into this lifestyle. They do not have a viable way out. They have no education, they have no knowledge of the outside world, and worst of all, they are pair bonded with babies that are not their own. They have come to provide for Michelle's youngest children in the way Michelle should, and therefor likely have bonded with them in a maternal way as well. They cannot simply abandon those bonds, no matter how unfair their situation may be. Yes, in theory they have a choice - but in theory alone. And if it's only theoretical, does it really matter?
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