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Thread: The Duggar Family

  1. #1571
    signed, sealed, delivered maude~flanders's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    It's so neat to see how much the kids have grown up in these new episodes. They are such wonderful kids!

    I was watching the episode when they went to be extras on the movie set and I thought it was cute when the camera man asked James if he had ever been in a movie before and he said, "yes, I'm in one now!"

    It was also nice to see John and Jana out of the country on a mission trip alone. I'm glad their parents have the resources and flexibility to be able to send the children on these type of trips.

    A homeschool education could be a good education. As a matter of fact, we use English books that were made by Mennonites because it is the best English curriculum out there. Both of my boys scored in college-level English from 6th grade on on their Stanford Achievement Tests. The curriculum is very challenging, but the books only go up to 10th grade. I believe that for English, the books will have covered everything, and much more than public schools do, to take them easily into college. Homeschooling is very popular where I live and most of the students go on to college. Our community college allows homeschooled children to start dual-credit classes as soon as they can pass the entrance exams (all of the kids I know pass them by 16 at the latest). Also, many homeschooled children CLEP out of classes starting pretty young, so many of them are graduating high school with an associates degree and transfer into bigger colleges. My 15 yr old's college schedule is completely planned and I know exactly what he needs to go into his field of choice and succeed.

  2. #1572
    Brevity Impaired bahurupiya's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    First, please accept my apologies for the double post above. I'm not sure how that happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by nanarama;4050562;
    On the previews for the coming week's show I didn't see a "bubble" around her as in the 80's movie of that name. Perhaps Michelle spoke figuratively?
    That's what I was wondering, but from the way she said it, I couldn't tell. I hope she was!

    Quote Originally Posted by tears.and.rain;4050993;
    Amish parents don't pretend that they're valuing education beyond that, or that they encourage their kids to explore what the outside world has to offer.
    Some Amish groups do have a custom called Romspringa, which is all about encouraging young people to explore the outside world!

    Quote Originally Posted by libgirl2;4048502;
    Regarding the Amish, "rumspringga" occurs before they are baptized in the Church. Being baptized is the final step and they want to be sure one is completely ready. This time might go one for several years too. Once one is baptized you can't "leave and come back".
    Everyone please thank libgirl for explaining it so succinctly, thus saving you from having to plow through or scroll past the approximately 7000 occasionally semi-coherent words it would have taken me to do it!

    There have been a couple of documentaries about it. It's an interesting enough subject in its own right, but I think it would be especially interesting to Duggar viewers. I mentioned it in passing in an earlier post, wondering if the show might be functioning as a sort of de facto Rumspringga for the Duggar children!

    Quote Originally Posted by tears.and.rain;4048428;
    If the Duggars want to homeschool, fine! I've met lots of wonderful, well-rounded homeschooled kids. But it's a matter of making sure they are truly getting the education they need...
    There may be a Duggar discussion somewhere on the internets that doesn't get into the Education Question, but I haven't seen one. Usually, in sects and communities that have little or no interaction with the larger society, there is an expectation, certainly a hope, that the children will, when they grow up, choose to live in the sect/subgroup as their parents did, and I think it's been touched on here, that the "homeschooling" or "groupschooling," depending on how the individual community does it, is intended to prepare them for that life.

    To some in the larger society, among the things that stand out might be less emphasis on traditional academics and more of a focus on the various doctrines, etc of the sect, and at least a very strong integration with what might be comparable to an internship or apprenticeship in the outside world, of developing the skills that are used in sect life.

    The Amish actually end the "academic" phase a couple of years earlier than the US minimum (I think that was one of the things they went to court for?) and focus completely on the agricultural and domestic household skills. Even the ones who do Romspringga do this, so if the young person, after going out into the larger society, decides to make a permanent commitment to the sect, they are all trained and ready to start farming - or housekeeping, in the case of girls.

    Most sects of this kind do have very strong gender-based roles and "separation of labor," and it tends to be belief-based, not just a tradition, so there wouldn't be any "house-husbands," nor would a girl be permitted to choose farming or blacksmithing as her profession, regardless of aptitude or personal preference.

    A question I've seen a lot of debate about has to do with the level of preparation the sect education provides, in case the kids do decide to make that transition to the larger society.

    One very visible and obvious difference in the Duggars' homeschooling and the Amish flavor, of course, is the use of technology - the Duggars today seem to do most of their schoolwork on computers, though I remember in earlier years they sat around a table with Michelle!

    On several occasions, they've talked about sharing homeschooling resources with other like-minded families and groups, and I remember Jim Bob, answering a question about the childrens' opportunities to meet and interact socially with non-Duggar youth, mentioned that they sometimes have conferences with these other families, and if I'm not mistaken, that is how he and Michelle became acquainted with Anna's parents.

    The Duggar children, because of the show, also have had more exposure and interaction with non-family members, but if any of them did decide that they wanted to do some post-secondary education in the outside world, I'm assuming that they realize they might need to do some "remedial" or "catch up" work, especially in areas like the sciences, which is an extremely controversial subject in the US.

    This is, of course due to the large population sector who, though they don't live apart from the world to the extent the Amish and Duggars do, have some very strong faith-based beliefs that have some differences from standard "secular science," for want of a better term.

    I also wonder to what extent those beliefs might be an obstacle, even with the "catch-up" tutoring.

    For instance, if one of the Duggars wanted to enroll in a regular outside world university or even community college, would they have a problem, or a crisis of conscience, "going along" with that "secular science," giving answers to test questions that were at variance with their beliefs? That's the kind of thing that could come up even on an entrance exam!

    Some groups also have a strong belief in keeping thoughts focused on spiritual matters, like prayer, sect doctrines, etc, and the flip side is that occupying the mind with "earthly" things is discouraged, limited, even prohibited, and many academic subjects by definition and of necessity, do have to do primarily with earthly things - like history, the sciences, literature - pretty much everything but theology, and even there it would be limited to the beliefs of the sect.

    That's actually another area where the subgroups have something in common with the larger society. Just as the sciences can be a sensitive topic, you don't have to go far in the US to hear of parents who are displeased to learn that their children have been told in public schools about the beliefs of a faith tradition other than their own - which frequently includes strong beliefs about other faith traditions, that, as with the sciences, may be at variance with the standard "secular" view.

    I heard discussion of an anecdotal incidence of this very recently - Group A was displeased that the schoolchildren were told that Group A and Group B share a belief in the same deity.

    While representatives of Group B attempted to calm the upset Group A members, saying that this was true, they do indeed share a deity, Group A became more displeased, insisting that this was not possible because Group B uses a different name for the deity.

    Group B tried again, explaining that the name the used was simply the same word Group A uses, but in a different language. Group A countered that their deity can be referred to only in the language they use, thus it is not possible that Group B's deity is the same one, and they do not want their tax dollars used to tell their children that it is.

    That dispute, which remains unresolved, illustrates one of the reasons for the increasing interest in and popularity of homeschooling, even among people who do not maintain a complete separation from the larger society.

    It also offers an example of the wide range of opinion on what constitutes "the education that they need."
    One man's conspiracy is another man's business plan.

  3. #1573
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Did anyone see the episode last night in which little Josie comes home? She's an adorable little girl. She was playing right to the camera. That's very rare for an infant I think. She's full of personality.

    I must say that I am still a little shocked at Michelle's lack of response to seeing her other children. Dad and three of the middle aged kids drove up to LIttle Rock to help gather all their things and transport them back to their home. When Dad and the kids walk into the room, Michelle is standing there holding Josie and she continues to do so while she, Dad and Josie reunite. Nothing for the other three kids. No words of concern over their recent chicken pox outbreak. No let me see your pox marks or come give momma a hug. Why? If it happened, then why would TLC not air it? It doesn't make sense and was quite hurtful to me and I'm not one of her kids.

    Then as they leave, Michelle and JB embrace and say their goodbyes. (Each are driving a vehicle back. JoyAnna is with Michelle and two of the boys with dad.) There were no goodbyes, hugs or anything for the other children. I'll just pretend it happened off camera.

    Then when Michelle arrives home, she drives through the Welcome Home sign the boys have at the entrance gate, never slowing down and saying Hey, gang, thanks for the sign. Why?

    Then she walks into the house she hasn't been to in 7 months. She sits Josie down and continues to stare at her. She maintains all focus on Josie. Why not grab the little kids she has hardly seen in 7 months and hug them and tell them how good it is to see them? No, she still focuses on Josie. Grandma was there too to help with Josie so that it would have been nice to at least greet your other children. I don't get it. And for those who say it might have happened off camera. I dont buy it. Moments of Michelle reuniting with her kids with hugs and tears would have been great shots and I think TLC would have shown as much of it as possible if it had happened. I don't think it happened. That home is much sadder than I had previously expected.

    Did anyone else see this? As nice of a person as Michelle is, she is very lacking in her attachment to her older children. It was very obvious.

  4. #1574
    Brevity Impaired bahurupiya's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70;4052977;
    ...As nice of a person as Michelle is, she is very lacking in her attachment to her older children. It was very obvious.
    I noticed it, too, and assumed that it might have been in part because of time limitations, they just wanted to do as much Josie footage as they could, especially since her situation is still very "fluid."

    But I also think that Michelle is focused completely on Josie. She's getting used to moving her around with an oxygen tank, and it would be natural for her to be extremely nervous and watchful for the first few days of having her at home.

    Ever since she was born she has always been in close proximity to medical personnel, even when she had her for a few days at the rental house, I guess as a "trial" to see how she would do away from the NICU?

    I secretly suspect that Michelle is scared to death, and will be until Josie has been there for a while and not come down with an infection from being around all these kids breathing and talking on her.
    One man's conspiracy is another man's business plan.

  5. #1575
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4052991;
    I noticed it, too, and assumed that it might have been in part because of time limitations, they just wanted to do as much Josie footage as they could, especially since her situation is still very "fluid."

    But I also think that Michelle is focused completely on Josie. She's getting used to moving her around with an oxygen tank, and it would be natural for her to be extremely nervous and watchful for the first few days of having her at home.

    Ever since she was born she has always been in close proximity to medical personnel, even when she had her for a few days at the rental house, I guess as a "trial" to see how she would do away from the NICU?

    I secretly suspect that Michelle is scared to death, and will be until Josie has been there for a while and not come down with an infection from being around all these kids breathing and talking on her.

    You are very kind with your words about Michelle. I agree that she's nervous and mindful of the oxygen, but that does not prevent a mother from giving her other children a loving greeting. There just isn't any reason for it.

    Did you also notice how it seemed she was grooming JoyAnna to take over Josie a little later? I picked up on that. I guess Josie will be her little buddy when the new baby arrives. I assme there will be another one since the couple is so enthusiastic about getting as many as God will provide them.
    Last edited by Debb70; 09-01-2010 at 12:23 PM.

  6. #1576
    FORT Fogey libgirl2's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70;4052994;
    You are very kind with your words about Michelle. I agree that she's nervous and mindful of the oxygen, but that does not prevent a mother from giving her other children a loving greeting. There just isn't any reason for it.

    Did you also notice how it seemed she was grooming JoyAnna to take over Josie a little later? I picked up on that. I guess Josie will be her little buddy when the new baby arrives. I assme there will be another one since the couple is so enthusiastic about getting as many as God will provide them.
    With editing who knows what we didn't see. I do think bringing Josie home is frightening for her and she is so wrapped up in that. I hope at least.

    I also caught the JoyAnna grooming. I thought I was the only one.
    "To err is human, to arr is a pirate"

  7. #1577
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by libgirl2;4053004;
    With editing who knows what we didn't see. I do think bringing Josie home is frightening for her and she is so wrapped up in that. I hope at least.

    I also caught the JoyAnna grooming. I thought I was the only one.
    I think a lot of people noticed that about JoyAnna. I wouldn't be surprised how fast it happens either. Michelle had on a matrnity top. I wonder if they are just holding back on the news for the season finale.

  8. #1578
    FORT Regular gadmus126's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    When will Jim Bob keep it in his pants enough kids already

  9. #1579
    My Doppleganger Jupiter's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    When does Josie begin to blend in with the family life at their home? I can understand Michelle's fears and worry over Josie..but there are 17 or so others who also need a bit of time with Mom and Dad. I know because of her difficulties, the baby is very bonded with her Mom....in fact she never notices anyone else...and Michelle rarely puts her down (either that or she's bent over the swing talking baby talk in that very annoying voice). I certainly wish them all well.....but Josie is going to have problems that are more than physical if Mom doesn't stop toting her around like she's an irreplaceable piece of china.
    ....You can't fix stupid.......Ron "Tater Salad" White

  10. #1580
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter;4053997;
    When does Josie begin to blend in with the family life at their home? I can understand Michelle's fears and worry over Josie..but there are 17 or so others who also need a bit of time with Mom and Dad. I know because of her difficulties, the baby is very bonded with her Mom....in fact she never notices anyone else...and Michelle rarely puts her down (either that or she's bent over the swing talking baby talk in that very annoying voice). I certainly wish them all well.....but Josie is going to have problems that are more than physical if Mom doesn't stop toting her around like she's an irreplaceable piece of china.

    Don't worry. As soon as the new baby comes along, mom will gladly hand Josie off to JoyAnna. I firmly believe there is no stopping these parents and that short of a medical impossilibity they will continue to bring more children into the world. If they continue with the girls, that girls bedroom is going to become very crowded. How many girls are in it now, including the 20 year old? I think that including Josie that will make 8 in the girls room.

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