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Thread: The Duggar Family

  1. #1551
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4048448;
    Or maybe just some of them read some of the comments - they did have the spinach, if that's what the green stuff was, but to protect the family from its carb or starch-reducing rays, they were careful to make sure the plates also contained pasta and corn two ways!

    Did anyone else catch Michelle saying something about how Josie would have to spend the first years of her life in a kind of bubble?

    How will that work in the midst of all those toddlers?
    I thought she said two years.

    This is in response to some of the comments about lactose intolerance.
    I'm not trying to be picky, but when Josie was returned to the hospital after her first release, it was well broadcasted that it was due to constipation. She could not use the bathroom by herself at all. They treated this condition with ememas every four hours. I think this info was in an older People magazine. Also, JB and Michelle have said repeatedly that she could not make her own stools. That is how Michelle phrased it.

    Perhaps lactose intolerance can also cause constipation. I just never heard of it and I didn't see it in any of the articles I looked regarding that condition.

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70;4048630;
    I thought she said two years.

    This is in response to some of the comments about lactose intolerance.
    I'm not trying to be picky, but when Josie was returned to the hospital after her first release, it was well broadcasted that it was due to constipation. She could not use the bathroom by herself at all. They treated this condition with ememas every four hours. I think this info was in an older People magazine. Also, JB and Michelle have said repeatedly that she could not make her own stools. That is how Michelle phrased it.

    Perhaps lactose intolerance can also cause constipation. I just never heard of it and I didn't see it in any of the articles I looked regarding that condition.
    Lactose intolerance is a common cause of constipation actually. A lot of breastfeeding mothers have to remove dairy completely from their diets to continue nursing.

  3. #1553
    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Having a small army of children and "using" them to help run the household and look after the youngest ones is a time-honored tradition. So old, in fact, that from Biblical times until the 19th century or so, your family's survival may have depended upon it. Family businesses depended upon sons and daughters who could contribute labor either in the field or the home, and children were taught from the age of 6 or 7 to perform the tasks "appropriate" to their age. Their responsibilites grew apace with their age, and they learned all their necessary skills under the tutelage of their parents. Children did not expect a lot of idividual attention from their parents - that's why God made grandparents Formal education of children was focused more on their stations in life than on their potential and talents. Our public education system in the US is still running on "farm time." And our education system is still churning out graduates prepared to enter the "working world."

    The Duggars seem to be a family out of time, but I see them as being followers of an informal religious cult. They seem to heed the Biblical instruction of "being in the world, but not of it." In this sense, they are much like the Amish. The Duggars pay no property tax on their 7,700 SF home or 20 acres of land because they took the necessary steps to qualify for that exemption (i.e., their home is legally a church). The Amish won a landmark legal battle decades ago and the ones who are self-employed pay no social security taxes (nor do they collect SS benefits). These sects are communities unto themselves, and place no priority whatsoever on becoming integrated in society. We don't expect these kids to necessarily go to college. By the same token, we don't expect our kids to necessarily have a skill set that includes felling trees, building houses, or fixing diesel engines. I see integral and equal benefits for children like the Duggars', and children reared in the "modern" American tradition.
    Last edited by Poppy Fields; 08-26-2010 at 03:49 PM.
    "Blessed is the lonesome pioneer." -- Judee Sill (1973, "There's a Rugged Road")

  4. #1554
    FORT Fogey libgirl2's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy Fields;4048744;

    The Amish won a landmark legal battle decades ago and the ones who are self-employed pay no social security taxes. These sects are communities unto themselves, and place no priority whatsoever on becoming integrated in society. We don't expect these kids to necessarily go to college. By the same token, we don't expect our kids to necessarily know how to fell trees, build houses, or fix diesel engines. I see integral and equal benefits for children like the Duggars', and children reared in the "modern" American tradition.
    The Amish don't collect SS, unemployment or have health insurance. I would cut them a break too.
    "To err is human, to arr is a pirate"

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    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by libgirl2;4048757;
    The Amish don't collect SS, unemployment or have health insurance. I would cut them a break too.
    That's right, they don't! I edited my post to include that - I should have mentioned this.

    We live near Lancaster County in PA, and we get all of our produce, meat, eggs, and milk directly from their farms. They are hard working, amiable, and very interesting folk!
    "Blessed is the lonesome pioneer." -- Judee Sill (1973, "There's a Rugged Road")

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    FoRTer coltnlasma's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Poppy Fields, I think your assessment of the Duggars' lifestyle is a very good one.

    Personally, I fall somewhere between the "they" and "we" descibed above... maybe that's partially why I find myself feeling rather protective of this family.

    As an aside - and this is more of a social comment than on the Duggars - I think our educational system seems to have let vo-tech studies suffer in the process of building a stronger academic/college-bound curriculum, and it's done a disservice to a segment of the graduating population who may be left without a clear path. I support and encourage academics in my household, but still view felling trees, building houses, and fixing engines as viable modern alternatives, too. Maybe it's a cultural/ rural southern thing?

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    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by coltnlasma;4048771;
    Poppy Fields, I think your assessment of the Duggars' lifestyle is a very good one.

    Personally, I fall somewhere between the "they" and "we" descibed above... maybe that's partially why I find myself feeling rather protective of this family.

    As an aside - and this is more of a social comment than on the Duggars - I think our educational system seems to have let vo-tech studies suffer in the process of building a stronger academic/college-bound curriculum, and it's done a disservice to a segment of the graduating population who may be left without a clear path. I support and encourage academics in my household, but still view felling trees, building houses, and fixing engines as viable modern alternatives, too. Maybe it's a cultural/ rural southern thing?
    I think it would be great if more people were protective of the kids. I think JB and Michelle are just fine. The kids are the ones needing protection. I've never read anything against the kids. I know I adore the kids. My heart goes out to them. JB and Michelle have a very hearty and stubborn position. It's the kids who people should be concerned about IMO.

    I agree that the type of education one envisions may depend on the culture or community standards one hails from. There are exceptions of course. There are some kids who fight their way into college while coming from homes of poverty and a complete lack of education inspiration. This is usually not the case and I would submit that it is even more unlikely if you have parents that provide you with loads of household work to do and surround you in a culture of basic educational expectations.

    I think that encouraging children to obtain the minimum education level, while never mentioning that they could become doctors, accountants, chemists, attorneys, etc., is not fair to the kids. How can the kids build dreams if they get no support from their parents in their endeavors? Offering your children high quality, college prep classes is another way to support them in higher education. It goes hand in hand with SAT prep courses, visiting campuses, and submitting applications on time. I've never seen anything like that in the Duggar home.

    One thing I heard a lot when I was in college was that they wanted to teach us to think for ourself. I thought that was a funny concept when I heard it there. I thought that was a odd thing to teach. Doesn't everybody know how to do that? Boy was I surprised. MANY people do not know how to think independently. When I graduated from college, I finally understood what they meant. (As I have employed people over the years, I find the ability to think independently is a rare trait indeed.) Perhaps that is what the Duggar parents fear. I wonder what would happen if those kids had their own thoughts and made some of their own decisons about their lives. Yep, that might be a good reason they are afraid of college.

    Even if you accept that they are against college, then why do you think they won't promote the community college? They offer lots of vocational opportunity such as nursing, radiology tech, criminal justice, hair styling, computer tech, etc. Maybe that offers too much opportunity for independent thought too or maybe it just interferes with the older children's childcare and household duties. I'm not sure about that.

  8. #1558
    Vidiot 13 is a Winner Champion Poppy Fields's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70;4048790;
    How can the kids build dreams if they get no support from their parents in their endeavors? Offering your children high quality, college prep classes is another way to support them in higher education. It goes hand in hand with SAT prep courses, visiting campuses, and submitting applications on time. I've never seen anything like that in the Duggar home..
    Debb, I have to say (as the 2nd of eleven children, and as a girl sandwiched between boys) that I got none of this support from my parents In the summer of my junior year in HS, my school academic counselor (a nun) called my mom and dad to ask why I hadn't sat for the college boards and to have them schedule the tests. They refused. I had great grades and was in the NHS. But my parents figured I didn't "need" college because I was probably going to marry by age 19 (get this... because I was "pretty." )

    At 17, I thought I wanted to be a doctor. I just knew this. I took 4 years of math, Latin, French along with biology, physics, and chemistry. When I realized my parents were not going to support my academic goals, I joined the Navy (where I met the man I would marry). I started college at age 22 and quickly realized that I wanted to be a lawyer. The Federal government paid for most of it, but my parents did all they could to chip in. It never occurred to them that I could have serious goals... they did not believe I meant it. My husband and I both attended the same law school and supported one another through the ordeal.

    I have 6 brothers and 4 sisters. One of my brothers graduated from college and is a social worker. The others all went to work for the local power company and make very good livings, and have raised and educated some great kids. Two earned engineering degrees on the job. One took a Master's in MIS on the job and is a systems analyst. All are licensed electricians. I might add that all of my brothers can fell trees, haul them away, fix engines, build homes, make cabinets... and have mastered other skills - all in one skill set. There's a LOT to be said for that! If all the lights in the world went out tomorrow and all the supermarkets closed, I'd be at their doors for their advice on "Plan B." My sisters: one is the director of the school of music and dance at a prestigious local college (she has no college credentials), 2 are RNs, 1 is a teacher. Our parents didn't insist on anyone taking SATs, much less schlep us around for college visitations. That wasn't in their skill sets.

    Raising a large family is much like running a business, I think. Your CEO and CO don't do the HR stuff like cultivating your talents and dreams. You are completely on your own for that. It worked out just fine for my family and I imagine it will for the Duggars, too. Sorry to have waxed so long- winded here, but I did want to say this: parents of large broods want their kids to be skilled, independent, and able to earn. Especially the boys, at least in my day. The shortest path to that is not college/grad school, and there is no shame/waste in that whatsoever. Not that you were implying there is, Debb. I'm just saying it's different when you have 2 or 3 kids, and when you have 20... or in my parents' case, 11.
    Last edited by Poppy Fields; 08-26-2010 at 07:35 PM.
    "Blessed is the lonesome pioneer." -- Judee Sill (1973, "There's a Rugged Road")

  9. #1559
    FORT Fogey justCoz's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy Fields;4048911;
    Our parents didn't insist on anyone taking SATs, much less schlep us around for college visitations. That wasn't in their skill sets.
    This might be a key point in the whole thing. My husband's parents didn't really encourage him either, neither of them had gone to college and therefore didn't know a lot about what it took to get him there. They only have 2 children, so it wasn't a matter of too many kids around for them. What he and his brother did was on their own. Their parents are proud of them, but they had no advice. My BIL was on his own for even getting to college. He had friends from church drive him to college for the first time. It's a 13 hour drive.

    My mother was the same way. She has 3 daughters, 2 of she was a single mom for when it came time for college. While she didn't discourage me from going it's not something she did, so had no knowlege of. I think my school signed me up for the ACTs. My mother did drive me to ACT testing, but not to college. My grandmother did that. Both sets of parents couldn't take the time off of work. My father is the only one of the 4 with a college education and that wasn't directly out of high school. He got an associate degree out of high school, but didn't complete anything else for several years and that was through night school.

    I attended one year of college. My husband went into the Army. He finally went to college at age 27. We had a baby daughter and he was working and going to school full time the entire time. It's something we both value now and are raising our daughter with the expectation she will attend college.

    Perhaps the Duggars just don't have this in their skill set.

  10. #1560
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by justCoz;4049729;

    Perhaps the Duggars just don't have this in their skill set.
    Maybe they don't, but they could if they really wanted to. I'm sure some of the comments from viewers has gotten through to them over the years and much of it involves the kid's education of lack thereof. I think the parents are content to be as they are. I think of the saying "Ignorance is bliss." Maybe that is true for some.

    Poppy Field, Congratulatons on your success story! Man, you have really fought to get where you are now. I know a little how you feel. I also grew up in an environment where college was not promoted. I was one of three. I attended a Christian private school who used curriculum that is advertised on Josh Duggar's website.(It's fundamental, Bible based, limited material.) It was definitely not college prep material. On my own I arranged to take the ACT. After graduation, I went to work and attended the community college. I convinced my employer to pay for my tuition and books! After I obtained my Associate Degree, I entered into a university, graduated with honors, and then entered law school and graduated in three years. I payed for it by working, scholarships, grants and loans.

    Because of my experience, I realize that every child deserves to have the proper foundation and support for a college eduation. If I were not a very motivated person, who was an avid reader, it would never have happened. My siblings did not go the college route and greatly regret it.

    I'm not saying anyone must do it, but they should be prepared so they have the option.

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