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Thread: The Duggar Family

  1. #1481
    Guys... psycobabe007's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by tears.and.rain;4024802;
    One of my main problems with the Duggars is that they give home schoolers such a bad name. I wasn't home schooled, but I know several families of home schoolers through various activities, and they are all lovely, exceptionally intelligent, well mannered kids. They're all homeschooling through their school district, so they have to at least adhere to some state standards, and by law they're allowed to participate in school sports for their district which allows them to interact with all kinds of other kids their age.
    Socialization is as important for a person as an education as far as I am concerned. When I see the social awkwardness and introversion of many of the Duggar children, it really turns me off from homeschooling. Part of what made me who I am is the interaction I had with other people my age growing up. Going to a conference once a year or having the Bates family over once in a blue moon does not make up for children having the chance to play and interact with people other than their siblings on a daily basis.
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  2. #1482
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    See, that's what I mean. There's a huge difference between what the Duggars are doing and what most people consider homeschooling. People homeschool for lots of different reasons. The Duggars reason seems to me so that they can keep their kids from interacting with anybody who doesn't share their specific beliefs, or to learn anything that opposes their beliefs without them being right there to keep their little brains in line.

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by psycobabe007;4024864;
    Socialization is as important for a person as an education as far as I am concerned. When I see the social awkwardness and introversion of many of the Duggar children, it really turns me off from homeschooling. Part of what made me who I am is the interaction I had with other people my age growing up. Going to a conference once a year or having the Bates family over once in a blue moon does not make up for children having the chance to play and interact with people other than their siblings on a daily basis.


    I agree. Some children really need the socialization and they don't always get it when homeschooling. My sister homeschools her 4 kids and my 17 year old niece is totally odd. She is not at all normal and doesn't have any non-adult friends. My sister's 3 boys all hang out with other kids in the neighborhood all the time and are active at church so they are normal, adjusted kids, but like I said, my niece is going to have a lot of problems due to her severe lack of socialization.

    I also went to college with 2 homeschooled kids and both of them were extremely self-centered. They weren't used to having to take anyone else's feelings into consideration so they just didn't.

    I can understand why people homeschool, but if I ever made that choice I would take extra care to avoid the lack of socialization and the self-centeredness.

  4. #1484
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    I know quite a few people who homeschool their kids. From the ones I have seen personally, it has not been a good thing. I won't go into the reasons why, but it has resulted in children who lack social skills and also lack adequate academic skills. I know the state says they have to pass certain standardized test, but these kids are far behind, regardless of how they are able to get those test results. It's quite evident when your observe sixth graders who cannot write a paragraph, you have a problem. Funny thing is that the parents of these kids always say they are very advanced over their grade level. Really? Not true many times.

    Anyway, I am sure there are some cases in which homeschooling is fine. I'm sure it depends on many factors.

    My mother is an elementary school teacher in a private school. She watched the episode when they showed Michelle trying to homeschool her younger children a season or two ago. It was a circus. She had no control over the kids at all. They listened to nothing she said. It was obvious that either this was something she never really did or if she did it like that, those kids were not receiving an adequate education. Even Michelle laughed and seemed overwhelmed with it.

    My mother was shocked. She said it was unrealistic for that woman to pretend she was teaching all of those kids with all of the different ages. Since that time, JB says they have put all of those who know how to read on computer training, so they don't have an actual person teaching.

    I have a professional degree, yet would not be so foolish as to believe I can prepare my children for college. There is no way I can teach them advanced math, chemistry, foreign lanuage, etc. Perhaps there are ways you can do it within a home school setting, but I have not seen it done by the Duggars or other homeschooler who are like them. Education is so important. Why skimp on it?

  5. #1485
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70;4023781;
    I watched the show last night too. It was great to see Josie thriving. It showed Michelle caring for Josie in the hospital and the older girls taking care of the other kids and running the household. I think this is how things are done with the family anyway. Even if Josie had not been in the hospital, I think Michelle would have cared for her as an infant, then passed her onto the older daugters as she concentrated on another newborn. They didn't mention it last night, but I'm quite curious as to whether Michelle is pregnant again. I would be shocked if she' not.

    REF. COLLEGE EDUCATION. I think there are some posts upthread about this issue. JB and Michelle pay college education lip service, but they do not promote it IMO. JB says that if any of his childrren decided to attend college, then they would support that decision, but I don't believe it. Actions speak louder than words. Also, the limited education they provide the children in their home in effect deprives them from admittance to most accredited colleges IMO. Have you ever seen an episode of their home schooling? Don't get me started. It's pretty sad. I have never heard one word about them visiting a college or how they might want to become a professional that would require one to attend college.

    They don't even promote community college for the older kids. The oldest runs a used car lot and the next to oldest male drives a wrecker. There is nothing wrong with these jobs, however, why not obtain some education before you are married with children and have less opportunity to earn a degree. A college degree can help you no matter what direction your career is headed.

    Another factor with the lack of regard for education is their religious faith. If you look at the links on The Duggars website, you will see their connection to the Independent Fundamental Baptist faith. Josh and Anna were married in an Independent Baptist Church. The books they promote for sale on their website are written by a preacher at an Independent Baptist Church. I grew up in that faith and know quite a bit about it. Higher education is not a priorty for them. I think it stems from their belief that higher education may cause you to doubt the religious training. There are Fundamental Baptist colleges such as Bob Jones University. It's not accredited, however, it's better than nothing.

    I suspect the Duggar parents think that college would take the older daughters from their childcare and household duties there in their home. If they do leave the house it will be so they can go straight into the arms of a husband who can rule over them and keep them pregnant.

    Some of the older daughters used to have on the TLC 19 Kids and Counting website that they wanted to be a midwife, however, that requires education. They have never shown any evidence that any of the children have received any higher education. I suppose they could be taking on-line college classes, but that is not a substitute for a real college experience.

    That's my take on it.

    OH, Anna, Josh's wife has on their website that she has a 4 year college degree in some religious type major. I don't know the details about that, but I suspect it may be from an on-line program.
    Earlier on in the series, Josh's desire was to go into law. He wanted to do it online (they said the school accepted "distance learning"; I assume that means online). From wanting to go into law to selling used cars? Wow.

    I just can't put my mind around how they think it's ok to pass the young ones onto the older ones. Every child is a gift from God, they say. They don't take any life for granted. Seems to me the "gift" is only enthralling for the first 6 months, then they need a new gift. How is it responsible parenting to leave every aspect of parenthood of the babies to the older ones? And they may not take the actual lives for granted, but they sure are taking for granted the fact that the older kids (girls, because the boys sure don't play a part in raising their sibs, or running the house, or teaching the kids) will provide every need the younger kids have. Sometimes I just want to shake the Mona Lisa smile off Michelle's face. Wow. Maybe I don't like this family as much as I thought!

  6. #1486
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Duggar Groupie, You make some good points. I find Michelle a very likable person. She is quite charming and IMO has some great traits, however, her addiction to growing the kids is out of control and clouds her judgment when it come to what the quality of life actually is for her children.

    She and JB always say they don't won't to limit God's blessing upon them when he blesses them with babies. My reaction is what about respecting God's blessing that he has for the kids? Maybe God wants to bless the children with learning, privacy, attention, bonding, etc. Should the kids have to give up their blessings from God, so their parents can get their blessings of multiple pregnancies? I would prefer my children receive the blessings instead of me hogging them all.

    Michelle also often says that children are like flowers and you can never have too many. That's not really true. Have you ever planted 19 lilies in one pot. I think they would be too crowded and starve from lack of nutrients. Her simplistic reasoning is not logical and is contrary to the children's welfare IMO.

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Debb 70, I agree. I do like Michelle, and agree about everything you said about her. It absolutely kills me that she can't see the so obvious. Something she said earlier in the series makes no sense to me, either. When defending making the older girls, who were much younger then, do the mountains of laundry, cooking, and child care, she said, My girls don't know any different. They have always done this, so they don't think they're losing their childhoods, etc. Does this make as little sense to anyone else as it does to me? that argument could cover so many things: My kids only know being beaten, My kids only know living w/ drug addicted parents, it could go on and on. That is such a feeble and simplistic argument that I don't know how Michelle wasn't embarrassed to use it.
    I don't understand why so many extreme Christian beliefs are based on the Old Testament. (The Scriptures they quote about children being a blessing, etc, that led them to believe more is better are in the Old Testament). They never quote the New Testament verses I believe they should at least take into account. Scriptures like "Let your moderation be known, the Lord is at hand." (Can't remember the "address" of that one). or the one that talks about taking care of the gifts God gives that says "To whom much is given, much will be required." There are more; those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. There are New Testament verses that tell fathers how to treat their kids, and while I don't think the Duggars mistreat their kids overtly, I also believe they don't honor their children the way the should.
    Listen to me preaching! I'm not even sure I believe the Bible! I do know it though, having been raised in a strict "Christian" household. Old Testament, of course! Maybe it's easier for me to have these opinions. I'm not Christian, and I have no kids...
    Let me just say, I'm NOT comparing the Duggar kids stuation to kids who are beaten, or kids whose parents use dugs. My comment was on the reasoning Michelle gave as to why it was OK for her kids to be maids and cooks and baby sitters.

  8. #1488
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    Well said Duggar Groupie. It all comes back to what I suggest is the real reason for the large family. The excuse they use of God's blessings is just an afterthought. The real reason they want the kids is because they are addicted to attention and they have discovered that it is a great way to get attention. Remember how the kids are always bringing up how JB does things in a big way, like the biggest bus, biggest truck, most elaborate display, the most all terrain vehicles, etc. He has to take center stage. When you have 19 kids, you always get loads of attention anywhere you go. You get attention and special treatment. I think he and Michelle thrive on it and can't live without it. They will not walk away from it either, no matter what. It's really sad.

    JB also doesn't seem to have any knowledge about wildlife over the last 20 years. He makes odd comments about keeping chimps as pets. It is well known that chimps make horrible pets and can be very dangerous. Doesn't he read the news? It's all about what makes him happy. Not about the animals welfare.

    He made other insensitive comments about elephants. Like how they should do tricks or eat peanuts. It's so old school. Elephants are intellegent beings and not there to do tricks or eat peanuts for his amusement. It's such an outdated attitude.

    Michelle has said twice on the show that the kids are JB's hobby. I believe it. He thinks about what makes him happy, not the kids.

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    Re: The Duggar Family

    The really sad thing about their need for attention is the lack of needed attention the kids are getting. I don't know how I fell about JB. I would have certainly been impressed if he'd grown a set (other than the ones to make a steady supply of babies) after this close call w/ Josie and said enough. He seemed really ripped apart when Michelle went into surgery. He has said that Michelle has the kids, so he lets her decide if she wants more, and I tend to believe that. She seems more....needful of new babies than he is.
    I hadn't heard anything he'd said about wildlife, but yeah, that's kind of dumb. I guess the lack of a TV (and any news of the outside world) in their home is showing up in JB, huh?

  10. #1490
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    Re: The Duggar Family

    I think part of the problem with Michelle is that she had all her first ones, when it was still in reasonable numbers, so close together that she never figured out how to move past that toddler stage emotionally. Like, when the oldest (I guess Josh) was still a baby, she had the next one she could focus on in the infant stage. And so on. An infant really needs it's mother all the time, and I don't think she would really know what to do with herself if someone didn't need her that way.

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