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What I didn't like about the last Survior was I always had the feeling there was more to the events then what you saw, and the part you didn't see, seemed more compelling. For example, you heard from ShiAnn about how she felt treated by Penny, but you didn't see their interactions. You heard about some of Ken's actions, but never saw them. I would prefer to see less "tree mail" delivieries or fake suspense moments and more of the actual interactions between the players.
The producers managed to find sweetheart moments for Elisabeth Filarski in every single episode. I doubt they had to look hard for them.
Richard Hatch came across as a real jerk. They probably had to watch hours of tape & debate which jerk moments to air. He wasn't a likeable fellow at all. Not even when he was trying to be nice.
Yet, Roger Sexton looks like a real loser because they chose to expose his flaws. If they had withheld his bigoted remarks or his condescending attitude, we might still regard him as a harmless older guy.
Of course, the whole thing reminds me of the sports media. Players can call somebody a dirty @#&$!, then claim they were quoted out of context. Umm, some things look bad in any context. Editing isn't always the culprit.
John -
Of course they try to cast people into roles, and sometimes it fails them. My personal favourite is Pappy (Marquesas' Judge Paschal). It was clear from his past (the whole booty dancing judgement) that he had strong moral beliefs. Combine that with the stereotype of bigotry in the southern US (he was from Georgia, I believe) and you get quite a nice cocktail. However, after two episodes of hiding him (ala Erin, as you described) they recast him to be Rodger to Neleh's Elisabeth.
And I agree that what they are showing truly does happen. However, the sequence of events can greatly change the perspective. Take the hot tub example from Joe M. -- word is that Evan left the hot tub to follow Zora... instead the viewer is shown her leaving, followed by footage of Evan with the other women... note that the corner where Zora used to sit remains unoccupied even after she leaves, despite the fact that it was closer to Evan than other spots. Sometimes when they show something contributes to the story as much as what.
enygma -
Why ask questions there are no answers for?
jodaar -
Exactly my point (re: Roger). And furthermore, if they had left out some of Roger's side of the argument, they could have made Alex look like a belligerent jerk. Just something to put in the back of your mind. My guess is they chose that segment to make an Alex "defection" to Rob seem more plausible... making Roger out to be a bigot appears secondary at this point.
Lots of good points here!
HowardRoark, as many have posted before: you can't edit in, but you can edit out. I think we are all aware of that what's being shown, is real, but just b/c something wasn't shown it doesn't mean it didn't happen.Take the hot tub example from Joe M. -- word is that Evan left the hot tub to follow Zora... instead the viewer is shown her leaving, followed by footage of Evan with the other women... note that the corner where Zora used to sit remains unoccupied even after she leaves, despite the fact that it was closer to Evan than other spots. Sometimes when they show something contributes to the story as much as what.
So, maybe Evan did follow Zora, but obviously he did return to the hot tub afterwards, which he perhaps shouldn't have done had he been a real gentleman.
I do agree that they sometimes may show things out of order, and that it certainly can affect the way we perceive things - however, for example, Joanna's infamous "hand" did happen, and there is nothing that can redeem that kind of behaviour imo.
Oh, and btw, yes we have discussed this topic many times before, but I think we have so many new members now that it can be worthwhile revisiting as most of those discussions are buried in old threads that weren't even really about this topic
Modesty -Originally posted by Modesty
So, maybe Evan did follow Zora, but obviously he did return to the hot tub afterwards, which he perhaps shouldn't have done had he been a real gentleman
I am curious where you read that Evan returned to the hot tub. I was under the impression (and I tried to allude to that in my posting) that the sequences after Zora's departure were in fact taped before she left, hence the fact that none of the girls moved to take her spot closer to Evan.
My take was that they edited Evan to look like he was too enamoured with the 3 women to be the gentleman and go with his date, but in fact the hot tub party quickly dispersed following Zora's departure.
Howard, I congratulate you on starting an interesting thread, andto the FORT!
I think that all reality shows have editing in them to carry the story forward. I agree with John, in that the characters are willing participants in the way they behave.
In the case of Roger noted above, sure they could have kept his anti-gay comments off the air, but wouldn't that then be editing him to be something he is not? I don't find that playing what people say and do, to be "editing", I find it to be their "behavior", and they have themselves to blame for that.
But, back to your well written and clear post.
I understand what you are getting at, but I disagree a bit with the premise. It seems to me (and do correct me if I screw it up) that you feel MB edits to create the standard characters he wants for his story.
My thoughts are that rather than not be sure, and try to edit for it, he actually screens applicants and casts for the standard characters he wants. Then he just lets the folks do their thing. fluff wrote an excellent article highlighting this before the season started.
I don't disagree that he looks to tell the story through the personalities of the competitors, I just think he goes and finds those kinds of competitors and brings them in. Which would seem a bit easier than trying to massively edit personalities.
This is my feeling Bill.My thoughts are that rather than not be sure, and try to edit for it, he actually screens applicants and casts for the standard characters he wants.
I think he starts out with the premise of wanting certain "types" within the 16, sweetheart, born Survivor etc.
I think he casts the show that way.
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