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Thread: Pan Am (ABC)

  1. #291
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastmom View Post
    I'm still wondering what the big secret is that she was supposed to reveal to Dean once they arrived in London.
    She had front row tickets for a Beatles concert. That is what she was looking at in her final scene.

  2. #292
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by CCL View Post
    What's the history aspect with regards to lesbianism and the 60s? Sorry, that was before my time. I don't think Ted will end up marrying her (and speaking of quick leaps); i think she will turn him down because she recognizes her true orientation and can't live a lie with him.
    History lesbianism - like homosexuality in general, was frowned upon and people were scorned just as bad as they are now. Some cases it was a crime to be such. Right now, I just feel like they're going to make it a bit more as though it was more open than it really was. I'm hoping that they touch on the subject with the same restraint - and to a point realism - as they did with the young black gentleman sailor in the first season. It was uncomfortable to watch, but it was because it felt real.

    That said... if they keep it based more in reality for that time, and it's as well acted as the show has been in general, then I will be happy even with it. (Though Honestly, I think what you're mentioning will be what happens).

    Someone somewhere here mentioned that they'd much rather see two hours of "Once Upon A Time" over two hours of "The Bachelor." I say we need to keep "Pan Am" on and cancel "The Bachelor" which is more soapopera parody than "Soap." (Probably an old reference again... but it was a real show. ).

    (Please note - I care about a person for who they are not what they are. My concern is that they're going to alter history to make ratings, and that is a huge risk).
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  3. #293
    9/11/2001 NEVER FORGET. Ten Pin Bowling Champion, Bookworm Champion Eastcoastmom's Avatar
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Thanks, JulieAnn. I don't know how I missed that. I am enjoying the 60's references even though I was too young to remember them at the time. Robert Redford in the Broadway play Barefoot in the Park, the Beatles mania, etc.

  4. #294
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by CCL View Post
    What's the history aspect with regards to lesbianism and the 60s? Sorry, that was before my time. I don't think Ted will end up marrying her (and speaking of quick leaps); i think she will turn him down because she recognizes her true orientation and can't live a lie with him.



    But the history of it was that gays and lesbians often married as a way of hiding their orientation (or, at least, trying to hide it--my father's cousin didn't fool anyone with his mid-1960s marriage). Shoot, under old the Hollywood studio system, gay leading men would be married off to secretaries and such. It was more common than people realized.

  5. #295
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    There are some current male movie stars who are married and have children, yet there's gossip about them being gay. I once saw a picture in a tabloid of one of those movie stars kissing a man on the lips. Also, gay male soap opera actors supposedly are told to stay in the closet. I read about someone who was beaten up because he was going to out Rock Hudson. I don't think the lesbian storyline will help the ratings. The most recent show had a 1.3 rating, and 4.04 million viewers.
    Last edited by bachelorwatcher; 01-10-2012 at 01:47 AM.

  6. #296
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieAnn View Post
    [/B]

    But the history of it was that gays and lesbians often married as a way of hiding their orientation (or, at least, trying to hide it--my father's cousin didn't fool anyone with his mid-1960s marriage). Shoot, under old the Hollywood studio system, gay leading men would be married off to secretaries and such. It was more common than people realized.
    Sure, but that even happens today ...I'm sure there were some people who chose to embrace their identities rather than hide in the 60s (note, not saying it was easy). If they have the character go down that route, it won't necessarily be historically inaccurate. Or maybe she will decide Ted is too good of a guy to fool, who knows.
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieAnn View Post
    [/B]

    But the history of it was that gays and lesbians often married as a way of hiding their orientation (or, at least, trying to hide it--my father's cousin didn't fool anyone with his mid-1960s marriage). Shoot, under old the Hollywood studio system, gay leading men would be married off to secretaries and such. It was more common than people realized.
    Yes, there's a reason it was called "in the closet". Throughout history, many gays have either married to hide their orientation, or simply had no relationship with either gender. "Embracing your identity" was simply not an acceptable option until about the 1970's. Heck, England's King Edward II flaunted his gay lover, and in return his queen led a revolt and had him violently murdered (you remember him as the sniveling Prince of Wales in "Braveheart".) Leonardo da Vinci, who never married, was once accused of having "improper relationships" with his apprentices and only narrowly avoided the wrath of the townsfolk by fleeing to another city. Even then, he wasn't allowed back to his hometown for many years.

    It's interesting that you mention Hollywood. Back in the 1890's the famous playwright Oscar Wilde was put on trial for being gay. I saw a documentary once that said his sin in the eyes of Victorian society wasn't being gay--half of London's high society knew that the other half was gay. It was their "elephant in the living room," so to speak. Wilde's sin was talking about being gay, since everybody else wanted it swept under the rug.

    So yeah, it would be fine if Ted's GF discovers that she's a lesbian, and even if she tries to convince Maggie that she's one, too. What would start to feel unrealistic is if they broadcast the fact and nobody bats an eye.
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastcoastmom View Post
    Thanks, JulieAnn. I don't know how I missed that. I am enjoying the 60's references even though I was too young to remember them at the time. Robert Redford in the Broadway play Barefoot in the Park, the Beatles mania, etc.
    So am I! I've seen the movie BITP, but only much later since I wasn't around then, either. I think it would have been cool to have seen Redford in the original Broadway play. And that was sad about Collette and the Beatles, although why in the world would you want go on a romantic date to a concert filled with screaming teenage girls? That would be like me taking hubby to a Justin Bieber concert.

    I'm a little confused by the Bridget plotline. I thought the CIA/MI6 had buried her in Kansas (remember her meeting with Kate in the church in Paris)? So why was she yanked back to London? Wouldn't she have been safer in Kansas?

    Also, I had a hard time understanding Collette's actions. If my BF went to talk to his ex-, then came back and told me "Nope, it's you!" I would have embraced him and thanked the heavens that he had come to his senses. I just don't understand her pushing him away again.
    Maggie: "While she takes care of the men with the guns, why don't you sit down and I'll make you a nice, hot cup of tea?"

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  9. #299
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by JulieAnn View Post
    [/B] But the history of it was that gays and lesbians often married as a way of hiding their orientation (or, at least, trying to hide it--my father's cousin didn't fool anyone with his mid-1960s marriage). Shoot, under old the Hollywood studio system, gay leading men would be married off to secretaries and such. It was more common than people realized.
    I don't think Hollywood is any different today for bigtime movie stars. Not only is there a lot of gossip about two successful married movie stars, a third one might 'date' supermodels to cover up his closet gayness. I think the press at one time, was much more carefully controlled. Today, there are stories printed in tabloids, and of course, the internet. Also, I think my next door neighbour is gay, and as far as I know, he's never had a relationship. (He grew up in another country). I think he might be living in denial. So is anything really any different than it was in the past? I still don't think the shock value of lesbianism will help the ratings. It's not something that will attract mainstream viewers.
    Last edited by bachelorwatcher; 01-11-2012 at 02:19 AM.

  10. #300
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    Re: Pan Am (ABC)

    Quote Originally Posted by Babbred View Post

    I'm a little confused by the Bridget plotline. I thought the CIA/MI6 had buried her in Kansas (remember her meeting with Kate in the church in Paris)? So why was she yanked back to London? Wouldn't she have been safer in Kansas?

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    She told Kate that because of her mission last week - wherein the list with name of spies and their true identities was recovered; Bridget's name was on the list - she was now safe and could return.

    I agree about Colette. Only thing I can think of is that her relationship with the married man burned her and she's worried about getting involved with someone she sees as already attached to another. But more likely to further the plot. Dean better come to his senses before more clothes come off with Bridget.
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