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Thread: Parenthood

  1. #231
    FORT Fogey mesachick's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    What a great episode last night!

    So Hank is sort of self-diagnosing himself as having Aspergers. I found that pretty fascinating gotta say. I love how Adam and Kristina are looking at Hank, practically hoping he'll be an Aspie since he's been successful as an adult. Gives them hope for Max.

    The whole bit with Amber was pretty gut wrenching. Loved seeing John Corbett back! I am glad he is getting a chance to step up and be her Dad during this rough patch.

    What is up with Camille though? She's barely through the door being back from her trip to Italy and is making plans with friends, etc. Standing poor Zeke up for dinner (luckily he made those dinner reservations). I don't get why she is suddenly pulling away from him. She keeps dropping hints that she doesn't want to be home, like at all.

    Joel - wow what a big baby he is being. So Julia had a guy kiss her one time - so what. She told him about it (she didn't have to) and she wants to try to make the marriage work and all he can think of is beating feet! Dude, it's not all her fault like you want to believe it to be. *sigh*

    This show is just all kinds of wonderful though. Love it!
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  2. #232
    9/11/2001 NEVER FORGET. Eastcoastmom's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    Quote Originally Posted by mesachick View Post
    What a great episode last night!

    So Hank is sort of self-diagnosing himself as having Aspergers. I found that pretty fascinating gotta say. I love how Adam and Kristina are looking at Hank, practically hoping he'll be an Aspie since he's been successful as an adult. Gives them hope for Max.

    The whole bit with Amber was pretty gut wrenching. Loved seeing John Corbett back! I am glad he is getting a chance to step up and be her Dad during this rough patch.

    What is up with Camille though? She's barely through the door being back from her trip to Italy and is making plans with friends, etc. Standing poor Zeke up for dinner (luckily he made those dinner reservations). I don't get why she is suddenly pulling away from him. She keeps dropping hints that she doesn't want to be home, like at all.

    Joel - wow what a big baby he is being. So Julia had a guy kiss her one time - so what. She told him about it (she didn't have to) and she wants to try to make the marriage work and all he can think of is beating feet! Dude, it's not all her fault like you want to believe it to be. *sigh*

    This show is just all kinds of wonderful though. Love it!
    I was happy to see John Corbett back as well. I used to watch this show all the time and then last year they put it opposite Scandal. So, since I don't have a DVR, I had to switch back and forth on commercial breaks. That left me dissatisfied so this year I gave up Scandal. I have a friend who only will watch when Scandal is on hiatus and she is always asking me why these folks are full of such angst and why they all can't get along? I don't see it that way. Every family has its issues and I happen to love the writing on this show.

    I can't figure out, either, what is going on with Camille. I was thinking good for her that she took that dream trip, especially since Zeke did not want to do anything remotely cultural with her, but now, what the hey, she's going back to Paris in 3 months? She didn't even ask Zeke if he'd like to come. She is acting like she doesn't even want to be married at all. I guess this is Zeke's payback for not selling the house, downsizing and moving to a condo in the city. I get why he wants to stay. There's got to be some happy compromise that doesn't involve Camille trekking off to far away places.

    I don't get Joel's reaction, either. Julia didn't initiate the kiss and she wasn't having an 'affair', so to speak, but she was wrong to be having a sort of strong emotional attachment to the separated parent. Nothing wrong with being friendly, but I think she did feel guilty about the constant texting and emails and their growing closeness, b/c a few times I think she hid the texts from Joel or didn't tell him when he asked, if I am remembering correctly. I understand Julia's frustration that Joel is so busy with work and not there for their family, but wasn't it Joel who took a back seat all of those years raising Sidney while Julia had her attorney career? So, she should be a bit more empathetic, I think. But Joel bailing? That I don't understand.

  3. #233
    FORT Fogey tinderbox's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    Love this show!

    "Couples" seem to be the theme of this season's episodes. Especially couples we haven't already see evolve.

    Maybe Camille has met someone. Maybe, not. Hmmmm. I think her rediscovery of the world is going to reach farther then her hubby can even fathom.

    Julia and Joel need help... They're clearly at a crossroads.

    Amber's loss will turn into a gain because she will rediscover her father.

    Drew is on the fence. Does he venture into a whole new world of romantic possibilities or revert to who's comfortable?

    Hank's relationship/friendship with Max has changed his life completely.
    Last edited by tinderbox; 01-17-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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  4. #234
    as always just my opinion Marlena_M's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    I'm such a huge fan of this show - it's like comfort food for my soul!

    Camille/Zeke... while I do feel for Zeke, I'm happy that Camille is not sitting around and being unhappy just because they want different things. I think she's spent so many years doing what she felt she *should* do and what she was *expected* to do that all of a sudden she's feeling like "hey, when does it get to be MY turn?". I hope they can work thru this together but I don't begrudge her going after the experiences she's wanted for so long. She gave Zeke plenty of opportunity to at long last get on *her* page but he's so set in his ways that he's completely resistant. I hope they can find a way for it to work. Oh and I love her hair being straight and styled so nicely - GO CAMILLE!

    Kristina/Adam - I'm such a huge fan of Peter Krause (sadly never could get into 6ft Under, go figure) that I could pretty much forgive anything Adam were to do. I definitely see him and Kristina hoping that "hey, if Max turns out like Hank it's NOT THAT BAD"... it gives them hope. The Max storyline has been been a difficult one ever since the pilot but it's so well written and acted! Bringing Hank into the mix is absolute sheer genius IMO. Ray Romano plays it beautifully.

    Julia/Joel - I wanna wring his fricken neck this season. Every episode this season Joel has behaved completely OUT of character. Sometimes I don't even recognize this guy AS Julia's husband. These two don't seem to have ever been on the same page - even back in Season 1. Now that they've adopted Victor (J&J weren't in synch from the start of that adventure), Julia quit her job (again J&J not in synch) and the roles are reversed (J&J really really not in synch!) the old ways of coping no longer work. Joel is a fish out of water and even though he's tried so hard I don't feel he's every really truly been happy married to Julia. As long as she stayed out of his way and let him raise Sydney the way he wanted and she just financed their lifestyle things were ok. Once it couldn't be that way and Julia was more involved, things got rocky. They haven't ever seen eye to eye regarding Victor but they kept moving forward instead of really sitting down and working through their different approaches, ideas and expectations. Instead of dealing with reality, they continued to avoid it until it was bigger than the both of them. At every turn, Joel behaved like a complete jerk regarding Pete. Julia should've backed up regarding Ed a lot sooner but she was naive and Joel is punishing her for his long-term unhappiness. I don't see this one working out though I'd love to find out I'm wrong and he decides the marriage is worth working on.

    I feel so badly for Amber but she's not been known for making good decisions so now she's experiencing the fall out of that. Ryan was never right for her... he couldn't get his act together for himself, let alone for her.

    Drew... oy vey. I didn't like Amy from the start. I felt badly for them when she got pregnant. I was devastated for him when that all went south... super far south. I cannot stand his "FWB" Natalie. Drew is stuck though... he doesn't want to be who Natalie wants him to be because he knows he's not that guy. He knows he IS the guy he is with Amy but Natalie has made him feel bad about that. I hope Drew kicks Natalie to the curb and I hope that Amy goes away because she really treated him badly - more than once - and just uses him when she has no one else. Sadly Drew has never had a good sense of self so who knows what the future holds for him.

    Even though Haddie is away at college I hate that they now don't even mention her. Last time I remember hearing or seeing her was when Kristina had cancer. Nothing during the Mayoral campaign.

    I'll never like Jasmine - sadly she can do no right in my eyes. LOL!
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  5. #235
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    Re: Parenthood

    While Jasmine can be irritating if I was married to perpetual adolescent Crosby I'd be pretty witchy also...

    The only thing that is going to bring Joel back in now is the kids, especially Vincent..he had tears in his eyes looking at the sleeping Vincent who he is going to abandon...yet another parent gone for Vincent... and now maybe the caseworker is getting involved?? I thought they'd finalized the adoption, but maybe they just put in for it officially. If Joel sees that Vincent might "go in the system" if he leaves that might be enough to force him into counseling. If he can find the time for it.... If he's messing around with Peet that's another mistake,,,,she's another highpowered blonde like his wife used to be...

    Why on earth doesn't Amber go to college now....at least part time? Why is no one suggesting that to her? Hopefully once the tears die down they will. This is a young woman who was applying to a lot of reach schools and everyone was surprised she didn't get in....being a dogsbody at her uncles' business shouldn't be the end of her aspirations...

    Drew... I hope he finds someone who wants Drew to be Drew, and wants him not just when they are down and out. My Sig. Other overheard what his ex was saying about Tufts students being cold and snobby...said, bet Tufts admissions office loves that... I trust we will find out that the ex contributed to the cold roommate situation. I mean if EVERYONE is cold and mean to you, you might want to ask what you've done... Tufts draws kids from across the country, and they are by no means all rich preppies---she can't have tried hard to find other friends.

    And speaking of asking what you've done, loving the whole Hank/Max thing. Totally agree with tinderbox that that relationship is/has changing/ed Hank's life. For the good. And of course that's how Max's parents are looking at it. Totally natural. Real sensitive, Crosby, all those comments about "he's just weird" to the dad of your Aspie nephew.

    Zeke was a total jerk when Camille started wanting to stretch her wings. It sounded as if he'd reconsidered going... that line about, nobody asked me, so it's time for him to speak up and say he'd be willing to try France. He doesn't have to go to the art museums...he could visit battlefields and WWII cemeteries, for example. And then they could meet up for meals and share their news. If they are that sort of funds I'm sure he could find some kind of handyman work to do to raise the funds. What did he used to do before he retired? I forget. I'm sure there's a way they can keep the house and still do some traveling. I can see why he doesn't want to give it up, but there could be a compromise, and he had zero interest in that. Weren't Zeke and Camille separated when this show started? Did he learn nothing?

  6. #236
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    JMO, but poor Joel. He's been a saint for so many years in his relationship with Julia. I almost think he's taken for granted by everyone. Her type A personality coupled with her 'it's all about what I want" attitude would wear on anyone. But, she's also taken Joel for granted for years. his patience, his emotional steadiness, his easy going nature. All traits she's benefited from. I'm not sure why Joel is the villain. Julia did not just kiss a guy. Her kiss was completely different from the kiss Adam experienced a few years back. she was not shocked or taken by surprise or in the dark about it-she returned that kiss-it was not, as she keeps saying, something that she didn't foresee happening. It was 50/50. But, it's more than that kiss. It's the way she treats Joel. The lack of boundaries and respect for his job. Her lack of respect for him was never more evident than when she showed up at his job unannounced, in a childish tantrum because he didn't call her back. There wasn't an actual emergency and she knew that. She was just mad that Joel wasn't dropping everything for her. As he had in the past. He could have lost a job, i.e., their income. He could get blackballed from other jobs because it might get around that his wife is baggage. As Joel pointed out, he never, ever disrespected Julia by bursting into her office and throwing a fit. He has too much respect for her. Her behavior towards him and his job clearly shows she does not respect him as a husband, a man or as the breadwinner. Maybe Joel has just had enough of dealing with someone who is so controlling, self-centered and arrogant. Joel doesn't have time right now to cater to her every paranoid whim. She hates that because when the roles were reversed he was always there for her, to cheer her on, pick her up and reassure her in regards to the demands of her job as a corporate lawyer. He didn't resent the situation or her, when she was consumed by her work load. He may not have liked it, but he understood the give and take involved in marriage. He was proud of her for excelling at her job and let her know it. He never was angry with or jealous of her financial success. He was always the calm one. When she started to back out of adopting Victor (no shock there) he was the one who talked her through it. who hung in there, who always hung in there patiently. He is a good man. Julia had an emotional affair and she kept that emotional affair going even after Joel asked her to stop taking all of those calls. What's interesting is during season 1 Julia nearly blew a gasket because she was upset about how the mothers at school , one in particular, were so friendly with Joel. Yet, Joel never went to any of them for solace or comfort when Julia was too busy to pay attention to him or her children. Yet, when she was paranoid about it, he didn't get defensive or lash out, he was as easy going as ever. But, when Julia found out Joel's new boss Pete, is a woman, every insecurity came pouring out. She couldn't even handle one dinner with Pete. Because Pete , God forbid, assumed Julia was `just a stay ay home Mom.' Her ego is her downfall. And it's Julia who unraveled immediately assuming Joel might have an affair with Pete, even though that is not in his nature or even a reality in the slightest. Has it not occurred to Julia Joel spent years being thought of as just a guy who stays home? Yet, he took it. Saw the bigger picture and didn't let strangers assumptions about him control or dictate how he felt about himself , his role or Julia's role. Julia was surrounded by plenty of powerful male co-workers, but Joel respected and trusted her character and morals enough to not give the an affair with any of her co-workers a thought. Julia however, despite all reality and facts about Joel being a great guy, doesn't afford him that same respect. Julia has taken Joel for granted for years. And now, she can't even pretend to be happy for him as he gets a chance to work outside of the home, pursuing with passion and success his occupation. I don't think she views his job as important as hers. There's no support for him, emotionally in that area, only resentment that she's stuck at home (which is a situation of her own doing). Joel was stuck at home, did she ever show him empathy? No. She took the situation for granted. Rather than taking responsibility for any choices she's made in their marriage, she minimizes her responsibility (The kiss explanation is a great example) and blames Joel for those choices she's made because he can no longer be at her beck and call. Joel is not a rash man, he is a quiet man. Patient, loyal and loving. I don't see a cruel man or a petty man or a man acting like a jerk. I see a heartbroken family man who doesn't know what to do with all of his colliding feelings right now. I see a heartbroken man who feels betrayed on so many levels by a woman he's always been there for over the years. To comfort her. Reassure her, support her, take a backseat to and to love and respect her and the boundaries put in place by her work, no matter how stressful things were at home for him while he looked after the children. It was not just a kiss. It was the final kick in the teeth to him after an endless string of selfish choices big and small, made by Julia over the years, regarding her relationship with her husband.
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  7. #237
    PWS
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    Re: Parenthood

    I think that is a very good pro-Joel argument, redsox girl, and I think a lot of what you say is true. The one thing that does NOT fit with that description of Joel is that he isn't willing to try any outside help to save this marriage. He's basically saying it's all your fault to Julia---and maybe it is, but does he think he is the only one who can change (leaving the marriage)? If they go to couples therapy the therapist looks at each person's impact on the couple. After all those years, and two kids, including one who is very vulnerable, isn't that worth a try? The Joel we've seen in the past would seemingly have tried it...unless he really wasn't being all that patient, but just bottling up and tamping down his resentment, which is all coming out now. I'm not sure why the writers are having him not be willing to try couples therapy. It's just he's decided, it's over, and there's no input allowed from anyone else.
    One other point in support of Julia---having been a stay at home parent at one point---the time Joel put in with a normal, or rather advanced, child like their daughter is nothing like what Julia was dealing with during the early V. phase, when it looked as if he might even be a danger to their daughter, and later when he was struggling in school---Joel assumed that by working with him Julia should be able to fix that, probably based on his experience with their daughter--he acted as if she hadn't even tried before she brought the problem to him to discuss.
    Finally, on the anti Julia side, I'm all for honesty in relationships, but what on earth was gained for the marriage by Julia telling him about the kiss? I guess it relieved some guilt for her but at what a cost! Not as if she were planning to continue the relationship, or as if the other guy were stalking her and threatening to tell Joel. It was a wake up call to HER about how far she'd drifted---she could have recommitted to the marriage without spilling all. At what point does honesty require confession? Every time you enjoy a welcoming hug from a friend's spouse a little too much? If you don't mind that construction workers still whistle at you? I agree a kiss crosses some boundary, but a more mature Julia would have sucked the guilt up and taken it as a sign to fix herself, not dump it on Joel. I know, the writers want the drama, and maybe they see this as a way of teaching a lesson...but wow, so not what I'd advise a friend to do.

    ETA---I think the passion of our posts shows what a great show this is---we are talking about them as if they are real neighbors!

  8. #238
    FORT Fogey mesachick's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    Regarding Joel - I think that one thing that is really irritating about all of this is that a few seasons back he was kissed by a woman (much the same as Ed kissed Julia). She was the mother of one of Sydney's playmates. He told Julia about it, and there was no big blow out, AND - he kept on hanging out with that woman for Sydney's sake. So why on earth is he being such a jerk know that the roles are reversed? He is making a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe he wants out of the marriage period. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up sleeping with Peet.

    Julia told Joel about the kiss I believe, because Joel told her wanted to know absolutely everything about what happened. So she did as he asked and now she paying the price for being honest. Joel is such an ass right now ugh.
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  9. #239
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    Joel never kissed anyone. During season 1 the touchy feely Raquel attempted to kiss Joel, but he totally rejected her. Julia did flip out when Joel told her about it.

    That's the huge difference in regards to the kiss. Julia willingly took part in her kiss with Ed, though she constantly minimizes her role in how the kiss occurred. Whereas Joel rejected Raquel's kiss and made it a point to draw a line. When Julia told him Sydney could no longer be best friends with Raquel's daughter, Joel agreed to back Julia's decision , though it bothered him that Sydney would be the one paying for the situation. It was Julia, who again took charge, reversing her decision to ban Sydney from contact with Rachel's daughter.

    While Joel was surrounded by women during his time as a stay at home Dad, he never engaged in an emotional affair. Julia not only Kissed Ed, but more devastatingly, she became involved with him emotionally. The classic emotional affair. And she minimized the extent of their involvement to everyone, including herself.

    While Julia can lay the blame for her choices at Joel's feet for not being there for her, it's important to remember when Julia was working outside the home she was not there for Joel or the children emotionally or physically. This was made clear in small ways, notably their daughter favoring Joel. Which is only natural since he was the parent Sydney spent the most time with.

    Julia was not always aware of or clued into Sydney's life due to her job commitments. and currently Joel's job creates the same issues. Joel did not resent her for this nor did he in any way become resentful when Julia brought her work home (which was often). Joel did not receive emotional support from Julia,. But Joel did give Julia plenty of support when her job was stressful and whenever she felt insecure. and currently Joel's job creates the same issues.

    When she was involved with Sydney, Julia became controlling, trying to dominate the relationship by second guessing Joel. The best example I can think of is when Julia badgered Joel about not making Sydney more competitive in her swimming class. Julia ended up making a spectacle of herself in her usual hyper competitive way, in direct contrast to Joel's easy going nature.

    We are so used to witnessing him being easy going in contrast to Julia's type A personality that any negative or angry emotions he shows come across as overblown, even though they aren't necessarily so in every situation, And if you are an easy going person any time you show anger, people think of it as an over reaction or jerkish behavior because in their minds they have taken that easy going nature for granted, almost denying the right for you to react strongly, in a negative way, even though the behavior is considered normal and expected in other personality types.

    We are all capable of lashing out in pain when someone we truly love has chosen to deceive us.

    I don't think Joel 's decision not to seek counseling is permanent. Right or wrong, he currently feels betrayed on a variety of levels by Julia and wants to punish her by denying her the chance (at least for now) to fix what is wrong in their marriage. And again, from Joel's perspective, there's a lot more to fix than Julia's current behavior. Joel has openly admitted he doesn't know how or what to feel, which is common for men.





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  10. #240
    would rather be cruising! marybethp's Avatar
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    Re: Parenthood

    oh I totally lost it last night. When Julia said "don't give up on me" I felt it. I wish he would listen to her a little more - even if she did make mistakes earlier in their marriage, marriage should be about communicating and figuring it out - even if they figure out divorce is the best option. But Joel's just seems to have shut down.

    Adam and Kristina are starting a school? Way to be far fetched. Hate when they step over the crazy line.

    I bet Camille and Zeek won't sell the house when they see the kids come "home" when they need them most.
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