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Thread: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

  1. #421
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    Quote Originally Posted by AZChristian View Post
    I've just finished watching the next 3 episodes. I am on Downton overload, and loving every minute of it!
    I can't wait until Sunday night. I will continue to watch on PBS. I may purchase the DVDs later. I could watch them over and over.

    I do want the prison and Bates matter to wrap up. I'm over it and not interested in that prison thing at all. I want them to wrap it up or leave Bates there and let Anna move on. Enough already.

    And I want some of the troublemakers in the staff to have their goose cooked. Figuratively speaking that is. lol

    I will continue on with Team Edith. lol I pray she finds happiness. Mary doesn't have the same wit as her grandmother, IMO. Her arrogrance is not appealing to me in the least bit. IMO, a little more compassion and politeness to Edith would serve her well.
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  2. #422
    FORT Fogey Babbred's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70 View Post

    I do want the prison and Bates matter to wrap up. I'm over it and not interested in that prison thing at all. I want them to wrap it up or leave Bates there and let Anna move on. Enough already.

    Amen. When the season first started I was interested in this plot, but now it bores me. All the whispering in prison just makes me want to yell, "Can we get back to Downton?" I do hope that Bates gets released, though, and goes back to join Anna at DA. Now that would put a few peoples' knickers in a twist.



    I will continue on with Team Edith. lol I pray she finds happiness. Mary doesn't have the same wit as her grandmother, IMO. Her arrogrance is not appealing to me in the least bit. IMO, a little more compassion and politeness to Edith would serve her well.

    I don't think Mary is like Violet at all. Yes, the Dowager can be a bit ferocious, but only when she's defending her rank and that of Downton. She has had some fine scenes where she showed warmth and compassion to those who needed it.

    a) the scene in an earlier season where she expressed sympathy for a housemaid in the empty room

    b) at Edith's wedding. I fully expected her to thump Sir Anthony with her cane and tell him to do his duty. Instead, she wisely told Edith that a forced marriage is an unhappy one (maybe she speaks from experience?), and that it was better for Edith to find happiness elsewhere

    c) when Cora stormed out of the room, blaming Robert for their daugther's death. It would have been easy for Violet to side with her son and harrumph about impertinent daughters-in-law. Instead, she had compassion and told Robert that Cora needed time and space to grieve. She even tried to make him stop blaming himself.

    d) when Matthew came to her about managing the estate differently. Given how she sided with Mary in the premiere of this season, it would have been natural for Violet to throw Matthew out on his ears. Instead, she actually listened and agreed with him, trying to help him find a way to accomplish it. That showed more wisdom and foresight than her son and granddaughter.

    e) after Branson's humiliating episode in the dining room. Even though it wasn't his fault, it was still embarrassing for the poor man. Violet tried to comfort him by making light of it. "You're not the first drunk that dining room has seen." Even when Branson commented that he was the first revolutionary, Violet didn't give him a nasty retort, but merely shrugged as if she were still laughing. "Yes, you're right about that."


    Violet actually reminds me of what the Koreans call "dragon ladies". My father lived in South Korea for a year, and he said that once women get older there, they are allowed to drop the deference and say whatever they want. Violet may be an outspoken former Duchess, but she is also a grandmother and a compassionate human being. I have seen none of that in Mary. The most I can say is that perhaps Violet may have been like Mary when she was younger, but then she matured and grew wiser over the years. Time will only tell if Mary becomes like her grandmother.
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  3. #423
    FORT Fogey Babbred's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    Sorry, but I forgot this earlier.


    I tend to be very outspoken myself, so as I said above, I am all for being true to yourself. However, I was also raised to believe that there is a time for directness and a time for discretion. Would it have really hurt Mary to say something like the following? "Yes, Edith, I know we have had our differences in the past. I'm sorry for that. Perhaps we can work on that in the future." Or something suitably vague to that effect? She didn't have to necessarily mean it; she could have gritted her teeth and forced herself to say it. But would it have killed her to act a little differently than her usual abrasive self at a time of great emotional distress?


    And speaking of her personality, I have a co-worker who's much like Mary. Let's just say that you may get what you want, but it's a lonely way to live. I actually feel sorry for Mary just like I do my co-worker. If Edith can ever get her newspaper job I think she'll be a lot more fulfilled than Mary. And if Mary keeps on with her diva behavior, I think Edith will look a lot more tempting to Matthew...
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  4. #424
    FORT Aficionado echo226's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Babbred View Post
    Sorry, but I forgot this earlier.
    I tend to be very outspoken myself, so as I said above, I am all for being true to yourself. However, I was also raised to believe that there is a time for directness and a time for discretion. Would it have really hurt Mary to say something like the following? "Yes, Edith, I know we have had our differences in the past. I'm sorry for that. Perhaps we can work on that in the future." Or something suitably vague to that effect? She didn't have to necessarily mean it; she could have gritted her teeth and forced herself to say it. But would it have killed her to act a little differently than her usual abrasive self at a time of great emotional distress?.
    Mary too was affected by great emotional distress ... as she was closer to Sybil. I am not sure what Edith was seeking from the sister she "ratted" on ... or exactly why she was seeking it.
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  5. #425
    FORT Fogey Florimel's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    I cannot try to impose 21st century standards of behavior onto these characters. I find Mary to be acting as she was raised to do. As the eldest daughter, she is expected to become a lady of the manor and has accepted that role. I have sympathy for Edith, but she did come very close to permanently ruining Mary's life. In that time and place, affairs were hardly rare for both single and married people. The main rule is that they were handled discretely. We saw a lot of that in Gosford Park.

    I do think Edith will make a name and a life for herself through her writing.
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  6. #426
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    I just don't see Mary as cold - I think she's just emotionally guarded. Considering what Edith did to her, I can understand that. I guess I root for her because of what she went through at the very beginning of the series. She suffered a pretty big loss. That's got to make you even more closed off emotionally.
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    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    Do you mean the dreaded Mister Pamuk, or her sort-of fiancee Patrick being lost on the Titanic? Because Julian Fellowes had her react in a pretty cold way to that tragedy -- her initial concern was about having to dress for mourning for a longer period. It made her father do a double-take in amazement, so it was a reaction he didn't see coming. I'm just wondering why Fellowes would set the character up that way if she wasn't meant to be a little cold?

    Maybe she just prefers to focus on practical things, and is misunderstood when she puts her emotions aside so often as a result? In any case, she's definitely more complex than Edith or Sybil...it will be interesting to see what she's like when season 4 starts...
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  8. #428
    8/2/64 until forever! AZChristian's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    I just finished watching Season 3. I can't possibly wait months and months for Season 4. Papa, make them show it sooner.

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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    I meant both, but moreso Patrick. I think Pamuk was a reaction to Patrick's death. Who knows what she was like before that. People react differently to loss. Mary has always felt to me like someone who feels things very deeply, but isn't able to express it. I think NOT being the one who can inherit Downton has got to do something to her as well. Marrying Patrick would have secured Downton for her and the family. With his death, it looked like everything was lost again.

    I don't think she's cold and unfeeling. One person's "cold" is another's "reserved." Remember how wonderful she was to Bates and Anna on their wedding night? Her relationship with Carson? Not to mention some of the things that happen later in this season.

    I think Fellowes has written an entire show filled with complex characters. They pretty much all do nice things and not-so-nice things....sometimes in the same episode.

    AZC - PBS already announced that they aren't changing things for season 4 - it'll start airing in January of 2014. 'Downton Abbey' Season 4 Gets January 2014 US Premiere Date On PBS
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  10. #430
    FORT Fogey Babbred's Avatar
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    Re: Masterpiece Theater shows (PBS)

    Quote Originally Posted by MFWalkoff View Post
    Do you mean the dreaded Mister Pamuk, or her sort-of fiancee Patrick being lost on the Titanic? Because Julian Fellowes had her react in a pretty cold way to that tragedy -- her initial concern was about having to dress for mourning for a longer period. It made her father do a double-take in amazement, so it was a reaction he didn't see coming. I'm just wondering why Fellowes would set the character up that way if she wasn't meant to be a little cold?

    Maybe she just prefers to focus on practical things, and is misunderstood when she puts her emotions aside so often as a result? In any case, she's definitely more complex than Edith or Sybil...it will be interesting to see what she's like when season 4 starts...


    Yes, I remember that vividly. Robert was standing by the fireplace, shattered at having his entire world upended and over having lost a fairly close family member. Mary breezes in. "Oh ho-hum. Now I have nobody to marry and the entire future of Downton is in jeopardy and I might become a dreaded old maid. Does that mean I have to wear a black dress? That sucks." Way to make a great first impression for your character, JF. (Again, the comparison with Scarlett O' Hara is telling. Did JF read that novel?) So I have to admit I'm totally biased against Mary. I haven't liked her since the moment she first appeared on screen. I have yet to see anything to change my opinion. IMO, she's a snotty brat. I far prefer the kind Sybil and the brave Edith.

    Note I didn't say I approved of everything they did. I thought Sybil threw herself away on Branson and I didn't approve of Edith's contacting the Turks. OTOH, I didn't approve of Mary decision, either, to potentially ruin her marriage prospects by having a fling with a virtual stranger in her own bedroom just down the hallway from her father's. Now that's really discreet. And married women certainly had affairs. That's been a commonplace of history. King Edward VII, king just before this show started, was notorious for his affairs with married women. Single women, though, were expected to be virgins on their wedding night. If they had an affair, then they risked a lot more than their married sisters. Even married women could become notorious, though. Wallace Simpson was hugely controversial not just because she was divorced, but also because she and the Prince had been running around while she was still married to Mr. Simpson. And the whole reason Princess Diana became a "lamb at the slaughter" was because the Royal Family wanted a young, virginal woman for Prince Charles.


    As for the baby's baptism, that's interesting that Branson keeps insisting he's a Catholic. They're are normally very strict about ex-communicating someone who marries outside the faith. My uncle was thrown out 20 years ago when he married my aunt, so I'm sure they were much stricter back then. Also, I think Cora probably backs him up. She had promised Sybil that she would help her send Tom back to Ireland, so Cora probably thinks it's her duty to continue supporting Tom.


    I found this mentioned in a blog, and I thought it was an excellent point. Isobel served as a nurse in the Boer War. She even badgered Dr. Clarkson into doing a surgical procedure that saved a tenant's life. So if she had been at Downton that night she probably would have sided with Clarkson and urged Tom to get Sybil to the hospital. Having a knowledgeable woman supporting them would have made Cora and Violet even bolder. Therefore, it was rather a glaring plot hole to leave Isobel out of that episode.
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