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Thread: Glee

  1. #731
    Resident "tyrant" JavaJo's Avatar
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    re: GLEE

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical;3923212;
    I thought this blog made some really good points about the Finn-Kurt debacle of a few weeks ago: Scott Mendelson: Why Glee's 'Breakthrough Gay Scene' Fails as a Teachable Moment
    Thanks for posting that. He nailed it right on the head!
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  2. #732
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    re: GLEE

    I agree---I've had to tape a lot of Glee this spring so catching up in random order, and have just seen that episode.... I teach about sexual harassment on my campus, and I have to say that Kurt's behavior has been very questionable. Very telling line he had, I think when they were discussing decor early on, when he said something about he would design something expressing whom HE wanted Finn to be , vs. expressing who Finn IS.

    And I have to say that while the word fag is generally offensive, what Kurt's dad was objecting to was that he thought Finn was using it as a generic negative, as so many teens do (e.g., "that test was so faggy"), but Finn was not...would Kurt's dad have been any happier if Finn had said, why did you decorate the whole room like a gay dream stereotype?

    And on top of all that, this whole theme is strongly supporting the common straight male belief that gay men are all lusting after them....the very stereotype that is at the bottom of the whole anti gays in the military feeling. I'm sure some gay men do lust after unattainable straight men, after all, we all lust after unattainable objects of desire no matter what our sexual orienations, but from all the discussions I've heard it isn't all THAT common in daily life. I'm just surprised that the writer, who by all news reports is gay, is making such a big deal of this. He's surely not planning to have Finn discover he's bi after all this time.... Unless this is going to end up with Kurt finding some way to cope with and redirect his feelings I don't think the "message" is all that great a one to send out to the teen audience.

    Maybe this is heading down the road of having Kurt get a wake up call, but so far it doesn't seem like it--and if so I think it's dangerous to have it delayed until some future episode...or season. I wouldn't have much sympathy for him if he were a straight guy harassing a teenage girl this way, and ditto with the gender changed. Yes, he has "feelings" and he's "in love" in that over the top teenage way, but if he really cared about Finn he'd think about Finn's feelings, too....For instance, what Finn might really like in the way of decor.

    And finally, back to the parents.... Kurt's dad is building on an addition so that Finn will have a room of his own eventually... what, they couldn't wait a couple of months to move in together? Great message for the kdis, parents, about delayed gratification.

    So, very interesting set up....but how much better played it could have been...sad.

  3. #733
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    re: GLEE

    Quote Originally Posted by PWS;3923750;
    And I have to say that while the word fag is generally offensive, what Kurt's dad was objecting to was that he thought Finn was using it as a generic negative, as so many teens do (e.g., "that test was so faggy"), but Finn was not...would Kurt's dad have been any happier if Finn had said, why did you decorate the whole room like a gay dream stereotype?
    I don't think that was it. I think Burt was objecting to Finn's using that word in a specific way -- to do violence to Kurt. Finn was expressing a particular rage, not just yelling, but throwing and breaking things he thought were effeminate, while using a slur he knew would be hurtful to Kurt. I don't blame Burt for reacting strongly to that, especially since he had no idea how creepy and inappropriate Kurt had been. It would've been more fair if Burt had asked for the whole story before reaming Finn, but I can understand why he wouldn't in that situation.

    I agree with that article though that the arc wasn't handled perfectly and shouldn't be heralded as a great breakthrough in the way we handle conflicts like these. All the extremes were at fault, Kurt's machinations, Finn's violent rejection, and Burt's reaction, but the show only focused on Finn's flaw, and he was the only one that had to apologize, and that was not well done.

  4. #734
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    re: GLEE

    they posted the 6 finale songs on fb! I just listened to them in their entirety!! squee is what I can say.

  5. #735
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    re: GLEE

    Kind of going back to the whole Kurt discussion - I heard a rumor
    Click to see Spoiler:
    that he will be getting a boyfriend next season

  6. #736
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    re: GLEE

    Quote Originally Posted by twochicklets;3924052;
    they posted the 6 finale songs on fb! I just listened to them in their entirety!! squee is what I can say.
    YAY! I was really at a loss for what they were going to be singing because they have already sung all the songs on the album.

  7. #737
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    re: GLEE

    Quote Originally Posted by WrigleyDogA2;3924340;
    Kind of going back to the whole Kurt discussion - I heard a rumor
    Click to see Spoiler:
    that he will be getting a boyfriend next season
    Well, that's one way to solve the problem plotwise. Still leaves those message problems out there though. Certainly I'd assume statistically that Kurt
    Click to see Spoiler:
    can't be the only gay male in the high school! Or even the only somewhat out one..
    .

  8. #738
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    re: GLEE

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical;3923212;
    I thought this blog made some really good points about the Finn-Kurt debacle of a few weeks ago: Scott Mendelson: Why Glee's 'Breakthrough Gay Scene' Fails as a Teachable Moment
    I have to respectfully disagree about the points that column tries to make. Hate speech is hate speech, even when put in the hands of amateurs with meager intentions. Kurt did act horribly in the weeks leading up to that moment, but it doesn't suddenly make it okay for Finn to start hurling that word around. Two wrongs just make two wrongs; and the point of the scene wasn't to address both of them. It was to show that tolerance isn't easy, but that we should work at it anyway.

    As for Kurt's dad's overreaction, that's what good dads do when they see their kid in trouble. Especially this dad, who has had to unlearn so much of what he learned from his parents and his generation. The line that stuck with me from his speech was: "This is our home, Kurt!" Meaning, he sees his job as protecting his kid any way he can, and their home isn't going to be a place where his kid should feel threatened. We know that the dad doesn't really think "the place looks great", but he loves his son, and he's trying. Which is all that can be asked of people.

    How Kurt has to atone for what he's done is a separate issue, to be dealt with on its own. And the dad will have time to reflect, and probably come around on his decision. But in terms of what the scene is by itself, it's as simple as this: change it so that Kurt is black, and Finn uses the "n" word, and imagine the outcome. That's exactly what the point of this scene is. The rest can be addressed in future episodes. That's just how I see it, anyway.
    Last edited by MFWalkoff; 06-05-2010 at 01:34 PM.
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  9. #739
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    re: GLEE

    MFW, I agree with you that Finn was wrong to use the word, but I agree with that writer that the scene was not a teachable moment and that Finn is not the villain here. He's shown that he accepts Kurt for who he is, at least as much as most teenage boys from small mid-western towns can. I think Finn has been pretty kind and open where Kurt is concerned, but the build up to that scene was really unfair to Finn. First, they all spring the move on him - they all knew before he did - then, he learns he has to share a room with someone who is pretty much in love with him and towards whom he doesn't reciprocate those feelings and then, the room gets redecorated to look like a brothel and he's expected to go along with all of it. It wasn't all that long ago that he and his mom were discussing his issues with letting go of his father, so all this change - and everyone expecting him to not only get with the program, but to sing a happy tune about it - was pretty unfair. He exploded and clearly said something he shouldn't have said, but it didn't come out of nowhere.

    I'm not saying Finn was right - and I don't think the writer is saying that either - but I don't think that was such a great moment. Great fathers do protect their kids, but they also are a little more thoughtful than that. If Kurt's dad is looking at becoming Finn's step dad, maybe he should have been a little more concerned with Finn's feelings in this situation too. He was right to defend Kurt, but he definitely wasn't concerned about Finn at all in the events leading up to that scene.

    I really hope they return this that issue in future episodes, because I think that, as much as Finn needed to (and did) apologize to Kurt, the rest of them need to apologize to Finn too. I can't believe those two parents would just move in together like college kids do without talking it over with their sons. So irresponsible.
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  10. #740
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    re: GLEE

    I totally concede that Finn had too much heaped on him in the events leading up to that scene. I just think he could have expressed his frustration about a thousand other ways before he had to reach for those words. But, being human, I've been there and done things just as bad, so I agree that the scene is relatable.

    I think my real problem with the column is the writer's assertion that the scene was supposed to be a "teachable moment" in the first place. If the creators wanted Glee to be a show that teaches us things, then the style of the show would be vastly different. And I think the writer is smart enough to realize this, which is why his column raised a flag for me. While he kept stressing that he wasn't defending Finn, the way I read it, I think he was defending Finn and just didn't want to admit it.

    I don't think Glee is meant to "teach" correctness on any level, which is why I love it so. And I agree that they really should dig deeper into all of this. Since there's only one episode left, I imagine it will spill over into the beginning of next season.
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