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Thread: Mad Men

  1. #651
    Éirinn go Brách NJ EJ's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70;4086320;

    I will say that Faye would not have worked with the kids. Faye seems to be extremely challenged in that department. Faye's selfish nature was never revealed more than when she was faced with the Sally situation. Faye demonstrated she was more concerned with herself than Sally's mental state. Odd for a mental heath professional.

    Faye made it clear she's not a child psychologist & therefore not qualified to treat Sally. And not all women want to raise someone else's children . . . or their own. Does this automatically make her selfish? There are a lot of people -- men & women -- who, if they were honest, wouldn't put themselves in a position to make themselves & the children in their lives miserable.

  2. #652
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ EJ;4088081;
    Faye made it clear she's not a child psychologist & therefore not qualified to treat Sally. And not all women want to raise someone else's children . . . or their own. Does this automatically make her selfish? There are a lot of people -- men & women -- who, if they were honest, wouldn't put themselves in a position to make themselves & the children in their lives miserable.

    Granted, she's not a child psychologist, however, it was clear that Sally was upset and needed to be listened to. A nice, sympathetic, lay person could have recognized that Sally was about to explode. Faye on the other hand seemed oblivious to the fact and was all panicky and dramatic over her own issues, not Sally's. That struck me as rather odd. Even after Sally went off, Faye was all into her own insecurities. She really is not a child person. It would have become a bigger problem had she and Don stayed together.

    I think Don was done with women who aren't child people based on his experience with Betty. Betty is VERY unsuited for motherhood IMO. Betty is unhappy with herself, men in her life, children in her life, her nanny, etc. She didn't like her dad much either. What happened to her brother. She had it out with him and his wife too, right?

  3. #653
    FORT Fogey Harvest's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by NJ EJ;4088081;
    Faye made it clear she's not a child psychologist & therefore not qualified to treat Sally. And not all women want to raise someone else's children . . . or their own. Does this automatically make her selfish? There are a lot of people -- men & women -- who, if they were honest, wouldn't put themselves in a position to make themselves & the children in their lives miserable.
    I think Faye is NOT selfish. She made career sacrifices to help out Don. On the other hand, the secretary IS selfish. She wanted to advance her career, and used sex and being good with kids to get what she wanted. I didn't think the actress who played Faye was a particularly good match for Don, but her character seemed to care about him much more than the conniving youngster who snuck in to snatch him for herself despite the fact she knew he was seeing Faye. That's why I called her a backstabber in a previous post. Of course the actress who plays the secretary does not seem to be aware of this subtext, which might make it harder for viewers to notice that the character isn't acting as sweet as the actress seems.

    I also take issue with the idea that was posted somewhere that somehow choosing the secretary made Don more "authentic." On the contrary, his authentic attractions to women, based on whom he chooses for his mistresses, are the bohemian and career types. To choose the young, pretty, good-with-kids girl to marry is a total cliche. I love what people posted about I Got You Babe/Groundhog Day. Hopefully the writer had enough awareness to be cluing us in that Don is repeating his mistakes (marrying the pretty face and not the character of the actual human being) as opposed to expecting us to think this is some kind of breakthrough for Don.

    What I didn't say before is how disturbingly sappy Don was acting after getting engaged. At least Roger, when marrying a secretary, was following his genuine bliss and did not change his personality. When John Hamm acts goofy, it is totally charming, but when Don Draper acts goofy, it is completely out of character. I loved that at least Peggy and Joan had his number, so viewers had someone to relate to.

  4. #654
    Who is John Galt?
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    Re: Mad Men

    I love the Don Draper character. He is so true to life as a handsome, intelligent, but flawed man with a murky past who wants domestic bliss, but doesn't have a clue as to how to achieve it. He keeps falling for the wrong women and is really lost in the madonna/wh*re syndrome so typical of men during that era. Personally, I don't think he would be happy with either Faye or his secretary because he can't discern what love really is since he had no role models in his life. He can love his children because they are extensions of him and love him unconditionally. But, romantic love seems to be a concept he can't wrap his mind around. We all know if he marries the secretary, it won't be long before he strays to seemingly "greener" pastures.

  5. #655
    Lux et Veritas chrisg's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Just wanted to pass along that Jon Hamm is going to be hosting SNL this Saturday, October 30th. Hopefully, he'll get some really good material like the Scott Brown skit and Hamm and Buble. People still bring those two skits up to him all the time so hopefully this year's skits will be as memorable.
    "Do you want to change the world?...Think Different, Be Different...Stay Hungry, Stay Foolish…Now, let’s go invent tomorrow.” – Steven Paul Jobs

  6. #656
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    I know this is very late but I just now finished watching the last 2 episodes of Mad Men. Put it off kinda like waiting a little longer to have dessert and savoring it.

    After reading all the posts here, there's a lot to say.
    Also having lived thru that era albeit younger than the people in Mad Men, I think I can understand some of the stuff that happens.

    Saying it was too cliche for Don to marry his young secretary is true but relationships and marriages were very cliche in those days. Men and women didn't fraternize as much as they do now. There weren't that many women in the work place so secretaries could be one of the few women they'd meet. Housewives hung out with other housewives, couples hung out with other couples, women didn't go to clubs/bars alone or with girlfriends. So to me, Don proposing to Megan seems appropriate. She had all the qualities that a wife/mother should have in a man of that era's perspective. Logic and what seemed sensible played a much bigger part in choosing a life partner then.

    I also felt the Groundhog Day reference with the Sonny and Cher song at the end. In many ways, Don is starting all over, although doing the same thing.

    I didn't have a problem with Joan and Peggy "bonding" so closely in that one scene. They don't have a friends' relationship generally but sometimes you both can recognize that you each see the very same obvious thing and have a moment of understanding and agreement.

    I couldn't help feeling a little sorry for poor old Henry in this episode. That gorgeous woman he wanted so badly, turns out to be nothing but a pretty face with no heart whatsoever.

    I'm delighted that Don's kids will have a kind loving person as a stepmother. I think Don wanted to be with his kids more and having a wife, who's good with them, allows that to happen more often. Betty would probably be glad to let Don have the kids more.

    I truly hated how Betty treated Carla. There is no soul or heart in Betty at all.

  7. #657
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    Re: Mad Men

    Just re-reading some stuff and wanted to comment about Betty being something of a real example of what women were like in the 60's. I grew up in the 60's, and my mother was a warm, loving person with her children. We came first. And she was married to an abusive alcoholic. If someone had an excuse to be mean, it would have been her. The parents of my friends were kind people, also. I don't buy that women in the 60's were cold and unloving to their children.

  8. #658
    FORT Fogey tvaholic's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    I think of Betty as a woman who wanted to be a model or actress or something more than "just" a housewife. Doesn't matter if she actually could have been....... she wanted it. She's the example of the woman who could have been a lot more but gave it up to "just' be a housewife and it has never been fulfilling to her. Some women wanted to be mothers and housewives and were happy doing it (even under bad circumstances) others wished for the lives that they didn't get. THEN women realized that they could have both! A career and a home life! That's what most have been striving for (in the last 20 or 30 years).!

  9. #659
    FORT Fogey norealityhere's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Anyone see Jon Hamm on SNL this weekend?
    He really is great at impressions.
    However, the writing on this one wasn't up to par with the others.
    I felt he was under utilized in the skits.
    And, the skits, for the most part, weren't funny.
    They need to bring back Tina Fey to punch up the writing.
    To Thine Own Self Be True

  10. #660
    2 heads are better than 1 MrMet's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by mize77;4095710;
    Just re-reading some stuff and wanted to comment about Betty being something of a real example of what women were like in the 60's. I grew up in the 60's, and my mother was a warm, loving person with her children. We came first. And she was married to an abusive alcoholic. If someone had an excuse to be mean, it would have been her. The parents of my friends were kind people, also. I don't buy that women in the 60's were cold and unloving to their children.
    As one who commented about Betty being representative of mothers in the 60s, allow me to clarify in saying that I did not mean that in terms of "mother's in the 60s were cold and frequently slapped their children". I don't mean it that way at all!

    Rather, I think that Betty is representative of women in that era in that she accepted going into the role of wife, mother, and home maker, because that was expected of her. A woman making the choice to be married with children but have her own career was not the norm. So Betty is living the life that was expected of her, rather than the life she chose.

    In Betty's case, I think that her bitter behavior shows that she would not have chosen that path for herself if, for example, she was in her 20s/early 30s today rather than the era the show takes place. For other women, then and today, they find a great deal of satisfaction in that life, and are much more happy and loving as a result.

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