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Thread: Mad Men

  1. #1101
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: Mad Men

    As horrible as I thought Don's behavior was, there was an element that fascinated me. He heard his mistress fighting with her husband and was concerned. She called and said she needed him, and he was there, albeit on his terms. While he was demeaning to her, there was an element there of helping her feel better. Then Bobby Kennedy is shot, Megan is watching it crying, and he sits there feeling nothing towards her. Don cares for what he can't have, and doesn't know how to cope wit what he has
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  2. #1102
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoneGrrrl View Post
    Where the heck is Dawn?
    We didn't see her, but she's still there. When Peggy went into the margarine meeting she said she'd spoken with Don/Dawn and Ted asked "Black or white?" Peggy said something about "She said that..." about where Don was.

    I've never had as much respect (or any respect, really) for Sylvia as I did tonight. I was wondering if she had a backbone or a conscience. Apparently, she has both.

    Peggy and Joan together again = happiness.

    Bob started out as fanboy creepy hanging around and fawning over people, but he's grown on me. Joan could stand to be worshipped a bit....I mean by someone who's available and not totally messed up. Am I the only one who sat and did the math, worrying that she might be pregnant with Roger's baby again?
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  3. #1103
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    Re: Mad Men

    I'm still not convinced that Bob isn't creepy and messed up -- he's always smiling, and we have yet to learn much about him, or see him really working at his job. I still get 'creepy' when I look at him...maybe I'm too cynical even for this show.
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  4. #1104
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    Re: Mad Men

    I fear Bob might be the only well-adjusted and non-neurotic character on the show. That's why his smiling and niceness comes off as creepy.
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    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  5. #1105
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    I've been a huge Don fan, even though he's insufferable at times, since day one, but last night pushed me over. Maybe I just didn't get it. I was trying to figure out why he was trying to dominate Sylvia. Was this a sex game? Was he trying to compensate for his new lack of control at the office? I don't know. I didn't get it. All I know is that I wish that Sylvia could have been a little cruel to him. Kick him in the nuts or something. lol

    I did love the horrified look on Don's face in the plane. That was wonderful. I really love the new guy, Peggy's old boss, so much. He's such a contrast to Don. He's one of the few good guys, IMO. He does his job and then visits a sick colleague in the hospital. Don blows off his job and cheats on his wife by abusing his mistress. What a contrast.

    Even Roger tuned me off. Remind me why he fired that guy again. He has a history, but I forgot what it was. Roger was such a jerk.

    Peggy did well to keep a smile. That agency is toxic. She gave Don some good advice.

    My favorite line last night was when the one guy in creative admitted to being a Republican and the other guys says. "OMG, Don't you have any hope?" LOL
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  6. #1106
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical View Post
    I fear Bob might be the only well-adjusted and non-neurotic character on the show. That's why his smiling and niceness comes off as creepy.
    Exactly. He was absolutely decent to her. From understanding she wanted/needed help when she was sick to being empathic enough to know how she needed to be taken care of emotionally while helping her leave the office. She's completely surrounded by neurotic, self-involved people and we have witnessed their boorish behavior for so long that when a man behaves without any motive (especially when it comes to women and Joan in particular) it's hard to believe the man is being genuinely decent. He was also brilliant in the waiting room knowing how to get her help immediately. I honestly don't believe he has ulterior motives ( oh, I'm sure he likes her, but not in the creepy disrespectful way other men `like' her).
    " I'm a Republican. I only seem liberal because I believe hurricanes are caused by high barometric pressure, not gay marriage."- Will Macavoy The Newsroom

  7. #1107
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    Re: Mad Men

    I have read that Don was getting ready to dump Sylvia in the worst way possible after he humiliated her. And that he was disenchanted with Sylvia when he heard her arguing with her husband. I'm not sure what to make of it, except that to push my hottie meter to zero, Don has to try really hard. He succeeded. He was such a turnoff. Regardless of why he went that route, it wasn't sexy or attractive, IMO. Now, I'm more interested in Ted, the good guy. There are only about two in their firm, right?
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  8. #1108
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Just some thoughts on tonight`s episode. Only mho, of course.

    1. Ted clearly is at the top of his game, He takes his job seriously. Don's creative team absolutely fell in love with Ted. Probably because Ted immediately showed them in that meeting he has passion and commitment for the job.
    2. Ted dominated Don. Ted began the meeting without Don and ended it without input from Don. He made it clear to Don that being 45 minutes late to a meeting is unacceptable no matter who you are in the pecking order. End of story.
    3. So the new merged company sees two very different people. Ted, who values and respects the creative dept. They in turn react positively. Then, with Don sauntering in late yet again to a meeting, he reminds them of how disinterested he is in them. In the ptocess. The God has feet of clay and Ted is the reason that finally comes to the forefront. I think creative knew Don was no longer veril in creativity and resting on a reputation made from long ago successes, but Ted's presence made that clear to them.
    4) Because Don stopped growing emotionally at the age of 13, he is unable to tolerate being shown up or put in his place or dominated. Ted , by having the entire meeting without Don (well, other than to end it when Don finally showed up, which was brilliant) pushed all of Don's buttons. Rather thanself-evaluate his self-destructive professional behavior and perhaps entertain becoming more responsible, Don chose to Have a `meeting' with Ted, in private under the guise they were going to throw around a few ideas about the margarine account. Truth is , Don is so insecure the meeting was nothing more than an excuse to get Ted drunk, then parade him before the very people, who only a few hours earlier, were showing Ted respect. I could almost hear Don's inner voice say "See, look at this guy you are replacing me with, he's nothing but a weak, innefectual foll, lacking my virility. Now, return to loving me."
    5. Peggy put Don in his place. She's the third person in the last two episodes , in a work related situation, to do so. Last week it was Joan. This week Ted and Peggy. Standing up to Don and very clearly showing her respect for Ted (and in Don's mind a betrayal to Don on Peggy's part for doing so) was a great moment. Don tried to dominate Peggy by making a snide comment about the company not begging her to come back but he was surprised when Peggy didn't stammer or wither or act intimidated. Instead she essentially told Don he's a drunk. That it's time for him to grow up. Loved that scene. It was a moment in which Don realized Peggy is no longer starry-eyed about her mentor. In fact, she's not afraid to tell him his antics are disgusting.
    6. In the boardroom, during the new companies first meeting, Ted is the only person who offers to give his seat to the secretary. And he did it with such a casual, `this is what you are supposed to do' way it totally made him likeable and so very different from the old guard he's surrounded by in the room. It's genuine on Ted's part. Which is such a glaring contrast to how the men of Sterling Cooper conduct themselves. Manners are superficial in their world
    7.Oh, and if Don doesn't feel dominated enough by Ted, Ted has a plane. That he flies! lol That was a great moment in the board room when that was revealed. You could visibly see the reaction on Don's face. Which was "Oh blank, you have to be kidding me! He flies hos own plane, too?"
    8. I enjoyed watching Ted terrify and dominate the he** out of Don, on purpose, during the flight! He was in control and Don wasn't. Just Teds little way of turning the tables on Don after Don tried to control and humiliate Ted by getting him drunk. the comment " sometimes people don't realize they are flying upside down in a storm" while true, was said for no the reason than to exert even more control over Don and to make don even more fully aware that even though Don momentarily controlled Ted by getting him drunk, Ted had the ultimate control because he had Don's life and death in his hands. Loved every minute of that.
    9. This brings us to Sylvia. The one person Don thought he still could dominate, humiliate and control. He is impotent at work, but not in an affair. He can't humiliate Ted fully or dominate him or Peggy or his wife or anyone else, but he still has power over Sylvia. So he exerts it by making her stay in the hotel room. Making her get on her knees to search for his shoes (which interestingly enough she didn't completely capitulate to do) and by having her dress in clothes he selected, them making her get out of those clothes, taking her book away, making her a prisoner to his will. How far will she go, we know she is hungry, disappointed, frustrated by Don's commands. But even Sylvia, even Sylvia chose , in the end to break free , walk away and return to her life. She allowed herself to feel bad about what she was doing to Arnold and Megan. So, Don, Don is left impotent in all areas of his life.
    10. At home, Don is drifting away from Megan. She isn't a fantasy. She isn't helpless. She has succeeded despite being told by her cold mother and a seething Don, she could never be an actress . Lack of talent. Don thought it a silly little pastime. But Megan kept at it, despite it all. Yes, Don helped her. Bu with Don, his help , whether it's helping Peggy or his wife or anyone comes with a price. You cannot succeed on your own. He will despise you for it. So, we see Don disconnecting from Megan as she talks to him. He no longer hears her. He's drifting away because reality has once again ruined his make-believe world. And isn't that why he was so good at advertising, after all? He used to be able to create these make-believe worlds about anything, make the fantasy so tantalizing and real that people would buy anything from him. Megan has never allowed herself to be completely dominated by Don, even as she has tried to genuinely be there for him. But, she no longer needs him. So, he drifts away. He is, in his mind, alone and abandoned. Afterall, during his assignation with Sylvia in tonights episode the one thing he told her she needed to repeat to him was " I need you." And after everything that has happened over time at work and at home, in his perception he is no longer needed to keep everything together. There are other people who can do that, and do it better. He has become indifferent, lazy to his work. He's now being questioned. Which never happened before. As Joan said the week before( I paraphrase) `It would be nice to hear you say we for once instead of I. You expect everyone to always be content with cheering you on from the sidelines. As if what we want doesn't matter.' Tonight, Don realized he isn't the king anymore. That his suave demeanor and fancy patter , these superficial elements that helped give him unquestioned power, have finally been seen through to reveal the very unattractive soul beneath the well crafted, but ultimately, false packaging. False advertising. If you will.
    11. Bobby Kennedy is assassinated. A moment in American history in which husbands, wives and families clung to each other for a sense of comfort. In the last scene, Megan sits alone in front of the television as the horrifying news unfolds on screen. She is crying. Don ignores the tragedy of RFK's murder and he ignores Megan's need to be comforted. They are in the same small place physically, but they are very separate people. Sometimes, I think Don is dead inside.
    Last edited by redsox girl; 05-13-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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  9. #1109
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: Mad Men

    Great analysis Redsoxgirl! Good points.

    I agree that Ted was messing with Don a little in the plane, but I think Ted was scared too. I think he may have underestimated that storm.

    Ted isn't physically as attractive as Don, however, he's starting to be. Don's mean spirit and lack of compassion on most points is so distasteful, that his looks don't count for much anymore. lol

    I hope the show doesn't have the mean guys do something terrible to Ted, just because he's a good guy and they can. Ted is smart, so I was a little surprised he fell for the getting drunk trick. I hope he learned his lesson. Do you remember in season one when Don first got hired at the agency? I think it was Roger who took Don out for drinks at lunch right before an important meeting. He was trying to get Don drunk for some reason, (sabotage, amusement,?) but Don hung in there. It was Roger who dropped out. I think that may have been when Roger had his heart attack. Someone chime in if they recall this.

    Oh, I'm ticked at Roger too.

    The title to this episode was A Man with A Plan. Does that apply to Don, Ted and Bob? Yes, Bob seems to be nice, but was he really just trying to save his job?

  10. #1110
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    Re: Mad Men

    Was I the only one who got the impression that Ted was magically upping his game because he was competing against Don? I didn't get the impression that he'd always been this great, collaborative boss. In the times we saw him with Peggy pre-merger, he seemed rather hands off and out of touch. I don't think he's always been the opposite of Don. I think he was simply putting on an act. And if that is the case, as time goes on, he won't be able to maintain the charade.

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