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Thread: Mad Men

  1. #1031
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: Mad Men

    I didn't have the same take on Joan that you did. For starters, I think her reaction to the time card came from jealousy. She used to be the secretary who led all the bonding between the women, collecting money for birthday gifts, etc. She pushed the women, and made sure she was the queen bee. But she was also adored by them as the one who looked after them. Seeing another woman filling that role made her realize that she's got other responsibilities now, and has had to give up the "fun" roles. I think that is why she lashed out. Then, when Harry made an issue out of her being a partner and having the power she does, she realized she will continue to be in a tough spot. The partners understand why she has the role now, and know she deserves it. But the outsiders don't know the circumstances. She's left with the choice of either admitting that she literally slept her way to the top, or accepting that people will always question why on earth she is there. She can't win either way. I think all of that made Joan realize she has all the headaches of her job, but has lost all the fun perks. I think that she passed over the keys to supplies and time cards to embrace the "fun" that her job now offers her in delegating the worst headaches to other people. She found a way to shift the responbilities that make her disliked to other people.

  2. #1032
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    Re: Mad Men

    Good points about Joan. Still, I'm not sure why they had her get it on with the stranger in the swinging club.

    Did anyone know what the bar with the phone at the table was? I didn't get it.

    The Smothers Brothers challenged the censors about their anti war content from 1967-1969. Don and the husband of Megan's co-star discussed it at dinner.

    'The Uncensored Story' Of The Smothers Brothers : NPR
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  3. #1033
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    Re: Mad Men

    I thought that Joan's reaction at the club gave insight into who she truly is. Because of some of the things that character has done -- having an affair with Roger, agreeing to sleep with the Jaguar dealer in order to get the business - there's a perception that Joan is somewhat of a slut. Seeing the difference between the way her sister behaved and she did with the stranger and at the club, showed that Joan is more interested in finding true love (which is why she was with Roger) and contributing to the agency (why she slept with the dealer) than she is in sex. She's used sex to get ahead in life, but is not truly a slutty woman.

  4. #1034
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    Re: Mad Men

    Its funny that back then women could use sex to get ahead, while men just used women to get sex. The doubvle standard stood strong then and still to this day. Isnt 'slut' the most used term teenaged girls throw at each other to make the most cutting insult? It seemed that this resentment Harry has of Joan and her 'petty dictatorship' has been brewing for years.If a man had been in Joan's position and summarily fired a secretary, nobody would have questioned it--at least not to their face and in a board meeting! She used to be laughed at for her big breasts and dismissed as a pretty sex toy by some, and now Joan is being resented for getting ahead in a big way.

  5. #1035
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    Re: Mad Men

    I don't think Harry's frustration is truly towards Joan. I think it's towards the overall disrespect he has in the agency in general. I read somewhere that people who do what he did, in that era of advertising, were disrespected in general. The account people like Pete and Roger, and the creative people like Don, were considered the glamorous jobs of advertising. TV was still new enough that Harry's area of the agency was not very established or respected. That's been shown in things like the way his office placement always stinks. Last night, it may have brewed over to be attacking Joan. But I think his frustration is more about being in a department that no one in advertising cares about.

  6. #1036
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    Re: Mad Men

    Let me see if I have this straight. The oldest partner at the firm just makes business decisons, right? He doesn't deal with accounts. Roger and Pete reach out and get business, but they don't work on the accounts. Don does both, right? He brings in new business and he sells the market plan. Don' used to actually come up with ideas. Recall the one he created about disappearing on the beach? (BAD idea) Then they have the creative team. So where does Joan fit in? What does she do all day?

  7. #1037
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    Re: Mad Men

    I think it's a bit different than you laid out. I'm not entirely sure what Bert Cooper's role is anymore. I think he was a founder of the original agency with Roger's father, and pretty much just comes into work every day to have something to do. So he's kind of out of the day to day work, and serves as more of a voice of reason and leader for all of them. Roger and Pete are both in the account service department, along with Ken. They work on getting new business, and also take care of clients they have. It just seems like every time Roger or Pete has a client, they leave the agency - like Lucky Strikes. Don is the head of the creative department. So he is the boss for all the artists and witers who come up with the ideas. THe reason why I think he is with clients so often is that when they want ideas, he's the face who presents them. But there's always someone like Pete, Roger or Ken in those meetings with him, because they are the account people. Joan is more of a business manager. It's her job to make sure the agency can pay their bills, employee people, etc and take care of all the business things so the other partners can focus on the clients. She's always put herself in a place to pay attention to the details no one else is. Remember when they let Sterling Cooper fold and formed the new agency, the only reason Joan was brought in was because they all got together to take the files away, and no one had any idea where anything was. Without the beneift of secretaries, they had to rely on Joan to know how to do the basic day to day stuff.
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  8. #1038
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70 View Post
    Last night was the first time I really wanted to slap Don in the face. What a jerk. He really is hell bent on making Megan miserable. What a hyprocrite. I actually don't care for the actress who plays Megan. I wish she would go away, but first that she goes off on Don. Will Don end up sharing Pete's pad? Did you catch where Pete offers Don his pad to use if he needed it. Don stays he lives in the city. Well, Pete knows that. He's implying that Don needs a place to bring a woman. Duh, Don. Are you that dense? LOL

    I was a little annoyed that the writing seemed to portray that Joan was this miserable little tart who was all whissy at work because she hadn't had any lovin' in a long time. After she goes out and gets her love cup filled, she's back all contented. I don't appreciate that portrayal of her. Anyone else think that? I suppose it could be the validation that Joan got from her friend/relative who thinks Joan is just so super special.

    Joan and Rogers' baby is adorable. Glad they finally showed him. Will he grow up knowing Roger at all?
    I thought Joan was unhappy the morning after. i didnt`t think she was happy at all. To me, she seemed embarrassed , uncomfortable and wanted to be anywhere else than hanging out in those places. When she came into work late (and as a secretary she certainly did leave work w/o punching the clock, whether it was her five hour liquid lunch with Don last Christmas or her dalliances with Roger ). To me, Joan is angry at her peers, her supposed equals, because despite her title and despite the fact she is the most competent of the bunch, she isnt`t respected as such. To the day she dies those who know how she got promoted will hold it over her head. There`s a contempt and disgust. Really, a disgusting double standard applied to her by the men she works with. The irony is, despite being qualified to be a partner (more so than the men) she would never ever been considered for a promotion in a million years -sleeping with that troll , debasing herself, was in her world, her only option to achieve a promotion. The thing is she isnt`t respected, not really, by the men who are her equals. Because she can`t lash out at her supposed `equals` she misdirected her anger at two secretaries who are essentially powerless. When she came in the next day, in the afternoon, hung over , I think she had come to the revelation herself. She said as much to her friend (who by the way doesn`t`t know the price Joan paid for her promotion), when Joan told her `they treat me like a secretary.` I think everything gelled for her and she remembered what it is like to be a secretary at the low end of the power sale. She did the right thing in the end.
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  9. #1039
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    Re: Mad Men

    Quote Originally Posted by cablejockey View Post
    Megan is going to be so angry when she finds out--and she will--that Don has been cheating on her. Right now she's upset because she thinks he is jealous or cant cope with her success.
    I hate his guts, always have. But his behavior last night, calling his wife a whore, Really? Really? Megan was spot on when she told him he has to spoil everything for her, that he could have cared less about her job, never showed up to watch until it affected his ego. Frankly, I think he despises her because she tells him the truth about his character more often than not, so in his deluded thinking she goes from being his idealized complacent young thing to a woman who can call him out on his behavior, rather than suppressing it, the way Betty did for all those years. Also, I thought Megan`s pretend scene on the bed was an almost exact recreation of Don`s very real cheating with the Doctor`s wife. Even the position on the bed. Also, Megan plays the maid while Don and the doctor`s wife cheat in the maids quarters. I hope Megan pushes Don down a flight of stairs , with the help of Betty. Oh heck, Sally can join in. And bring Joan.
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  10. #1040
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    Re: Mad Men

    I think in last night's episode, there was a lot of misplaced anger. Don't you think that the way Don treated Megan was due as much to her success as it was his frustration over Peggy? On the one hand, he was really proud of her, knowing how much he contributed to making her the strong creative director that she is today. On the other hand, his creating her into such a strong business woman stabbed him in the back. I think it was that conflict that led him to lash out at Megan - not her acting role. In the environments they were in, he could not yell at Peggy, so he turned the to the woman who was easiest to take it out on. I have to admit, for a split second when he handed the neighbor woman the penny back, I honestly thought he was going to walk away at not cheat. I thought he'd realized how unfair he was towards Megan and was going to fix it. But he wiped away any slight reason I had to still have hope in him just like that.

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