The Tudors

[ButterflyFaery]

Originally Posted by Bandy

I do love this show but it leaped very fast for me this week in one breath Henry is telling the emperor of Spain to accept queen Anne then throwing her in jail the next.

Poor Anne. Natalie Dormer plays her so well. What would a third season be like without her? She really is drama!

well actually thats one of the few things about the show that stays true to the REAL history...her downfall was quick and fast....its like one day he wanted people to accept her the next she was being thrown in the tower.

[Google]

 

[FireWoman]

Originally Posted by Bandy

I do love this show but it leaped very fast for me this week in one breath Henry is telling the emperor of Spain to accept queen Anne then throwing her in jail the next.

Poor Anne. Natalie Dormer plays her so well. What would a third season be like without her? She really is drama!

It was about 2 years time in which Henry was feeling the strain of Anne as his wife. As early as 1534, after at least 1 maybe 2 miscarriages, he was talking of how to leave her. In Jan of 1536 her final miscarriage of a son (about 4 months) was the last straw and Henry felt it was a betrayal that he was not given a son by her. Soon after this Jane gained more favor from Henry, and Anne’s brother was passed over for the Order of the Garter.

In April of 1536 is when Mark was arrested and made to confess to an affair with Anne, and her Brother and others were arrested in early May and herself arrested on May second. Within 2 weeks she was on trial, found guilty, and beheaded. I think it was May 17th? So there was 2 years of Henry getting unhappy with her not giving him a son.. and because he didn't want to go back to Katherine, he didn't outright leave her. Because he wanted more chances to have a son.. he had to have his marriage to Anne declared null and thus removing Elizabeth from line of succession. She was killed because of the charges against her, one of which being high treason. If I recall correctly again, high treason was grounds for death. Guess he felt he had to stand his ground

So yeah it did move a little fast, but given that he was only with Anne for roughly 7 years.. i think she was Queen Consort for 1000 days.. thus the name Anne of 1000 days.. and he was with Katherine for 24 years.. there was bound to be more to show pre-Anne if you will.

[Duxxy]

And still 4 more wives to go after her.

I just saw the finale. It was spectacular! Anne's walk to the scaffold and her address to the crowd was heart wrenching. Fantastically done. I loved seeing Wyatt at the back of the crowd. Thomas Boleyn was a smudge on the nose of humanity fictionally and actually.
I got angry when I thought they killed off Charles Branson with his own sword. It was just too much of a stretch for me.
I can't wait for 2009. Poor Jane. When Henry was at the Seymour home making arrangements for his betrothal to Jane all I kept thinking was " that poor girl will be dead in a year"
I can't wait who they choose to play Anne of Cleves - how about Dawn French?

[FireWoman]

OMG I know, when Brandon's son was playing I was thinking, no they can't kill him off!!! I so do love me some James

[pakacat]

Finally got to see the final two episodes which I had to watch recorded, as we don't have Showtime at our new place. Very dramatic, quite well done even with the inaccuracies. Sort of surprised they skipped over showing the trials completely. I see now what they did with Brereton, creating him a martyr (though in reality only Smeaton confessed, because he was tortured... he was the only one they were allowed to torture because of his low rank).

Her execution was actually private, so the regular masses would not have been present. Interesting note with Anne's death scene... it is recorded that she was blindfolded. However, I think it was also reported that her eyes and lips moved for some time afterwards-- wonder how the witnesses noticed the eyes, if she was blindfolded (unless it came off)? They didn't even provide a coffin for her, so she was buried in an arrow box.

I'm happy, but a bit surprised, they are continuing the series; they are pushing it a bit with JRM.

Anyways, recently read a very good (but older) biography of Henry VIII, Henry VIII: The Mask of Royalty by Lacey Baldwin Smith. It is not linear at all, and not a good introduction for those not familiar with him a bit, but one of the best Tudor biographies I've read-- it concentrates to a HUGE degree on explaining the thought processes and mindsets of the time, to show what and how he and those around him were actually thinking. It is hard to get a feel for a historical figure and the times looking at the events with modern eyes and biases, and this book is probably the best for helping see things with the perspective of those times. If you can find it, pick it up!

[GingerLVNV]

Finally finished watching the series myself, and I was actually sobbing at a few points. What a great ending, very fast paced and dark, heartwrenching. I will miss Anne!

I'm not hung up on the tidbits that don't seem right, I think it gives you a sense of what happened but made it more emotional, not like reading a thick history book.

Anyway, can't wait to see Jane rise and fall....I love how Henry was stuffing his face at the end, going to be interesting to see him pack on those pounds! (he'll still be good looking to me )

[FireWoman]

Jane doesn't really 'fall' per se she dies in or just after child birth, no? In fact she was a key factor in bridging the relationship between Henry and Mary (and Elizabeth to a lesser degree) and having them have their place in the line of succession. He in fact felt that she was his one true wife.. waiting 3 years to marry again after her death.

On a side note as well, im reading a book about Henry's sister Mary called the Secret Bride.. its fiction with a base in fact.. great book. I have found it hard to put down

[Duxxy]

Henry eating the swan pie at the end was all symbolism for me. Swans mate for life. He watched the 2 swans on the pond all during Anne's trials in the end he had Anne and the swan wrenched from the pond and executed, then devoured them both.

[pakacat]

Originally Posted by FireWoman

Jane doesn't really 'fall' per se she dies in or just after child birth, no?

Yep-- she lived not quite two weeks after the birth of Edward, then succumbed to puerperal fever. Some older reports have her having a primitive c-section, but historians now agree that is inaccurate (no way, given their medicine, she would have lived even that long if she had, and there really is no evidence to back it up).

There is only one real recorded instance of Henry ever getting mad at her, which was when she tried to intercede on behalf of the monasteries and the people involved in the Pilgrimage of Grace. Basically told her to remember what happened to her predecessors, and that was the end of that.

Most historians I've read seem to take a kind or neutral view of Jane, but there is one at least that I read that ripped her, saying the only difference between her and Anne Boleyn is that for Jane it would have been clear at some point that Anne wasn't to be merely discarded, but killed.

Reports are mixed on her appearance-- going by the one famous Holbein portrait, she is maybe the least attractive of the wives to modern eyes, and someone (I think Chapuys) described her as plain but prettier when dressed well. However, another commentator said she was the fairest of his wives, and it is important to keep in mind that the critical element to being considered beautiful at this time was a pale white, unpockmarked complexion, which she had... for this reason, I don't mind them choosing a beautiful actress to play her, as to Tudor English eyes, she may have been beautiful. ETA, this sketch is more flattering than the portrait, too- http://tudorhistory.org/seymour/janesey.jpg I think Chapuys also said that she wasn't a woman of much wit, but that she may have good understanding. She probably mostly kept quiet and let her family guide her. She also comes across somewhat arrogant while queen; very strict about her ladies dress and behavior, and who she herself would socialize with, much moreso than Anne.

The ironic part is that while she was of the old faith, her son, because of his teachers, wound up a very radical protestant. Had he lived longer, Edward VI may have come down to history as a cruel king-- there is definitely a coldness that comes across in his writings and actions (like when you read what he wrote when one of his uncles was beheaded). However, he was very intelligent too.

Forgot to add that there was a great quote they should have included with regards to Elizabeth-- even though she was not quite three, she noticed her change in rank, and said something to the effect of how it was that yesterday it was "My Lady Princess" and today only "Lady Elizabeth."

In Henry's mind, he only had two real wives-- Jane, and Catherine Parr. Catherine had quite a close call herself at one point. Henry had himself buried with Jane, and in a dynastic portrait had her painted in as queen, even though Catherine Parr was queen at the time, and though his will made it clear that he had not given up hope of children with her (though many historians seem to think she was just his nurse).

[ButterflyFaery]

for those that might be interested one of the Showtime Channels are re showing season 1 of the Tudors right now