Big Love on HBO

[karna68]

Can't wait for it to start! It's been way too long!

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[Miss_Griss]

I'm guessing that Alby may not ever even have had sex with a man, even though he's clearly attracted,. He certainly has developed an extreme form of self-administered aversion therapy.

I grew up Mormon (in Utah), and like most conservative religions, Mormonism comes out strongly against homosexuality. I'm guessing the Mormon Fundamentalist are just as fanatical about condemning that behavior as they would be regarding any "sin." (I put it in quotes, because I don't personally believe it is.) So I'm guessing that being the son of the "Prophet," he would be pretty tormented by his sexual orientation.

On a totally different front, one of the main things that bugs me about this show (and not much does; I think it's well done) is the fact that Bill and Barb (who was raised in mainstream Mormonism) seem to be pretty casual in their approach to their religious beliefs. That seems weird to me since polygamy is a fundamentalist Mormon practice, and why would someone practice it who wasn't passionate about the rest of the religion? As the show makes clear, it's not an easy life--what with worrying about being discovered and all.

I thought it was totally bogus that his third wife, Margene, wasn't even a Mormon but had married into this polygamous family. And when she suddenly decides that she wants to be baptized, it's polygamy and being part of the family that she wants to be baptized into. She clearly knows nothing about the actual religion.

And one final thing I have to get off my chest.... It cracks me up that he and his wives are having all of this hot sex all of the time. Very healthy, but I'd be really surprised if even 5% of Mormons have sex lives as lusty or varied as theirs.

I do love the show, though, and I think it captures the Utah/Mormon culture very well and quite respectfully, including some rather subtle things. (Of course, I'm not Mormon anymore and not invested in having a certain public image of my religion, so I'm probably more objective about the portrayal. I'm guessing that not all Mormons would feel it was treating them sympathetically.)

[psycobabe007]

Originally Posted by Miss_Griss

I'm guessing that Alby may not ever even have had sex with a man, even though he's clearly attracted,. He certainly has developed an extreme form of self-administered aversion therapy.

I grew up Mormon (in Utah), and like most conservative religions, Mormonism comes out strongly against homosexuality. I'm guessing the Mormon Fundamentalist are just as fanatical about condemning that behavior as they would be regarding any "sin." (I put it in quotes, because I don't personally believe it is.) So I'm guessing that being the son of the "Prophet," he would be pretty tormented by his sexual orientation.

On a totally different front, one of the main things that bugs me about this show (and not much does; I think it's well done) is the fact that Bill and Barb (who was raised in mainstream Mormonism) seem to be pretty casual in their approach to their religious beliefs. That seems weird to me since polygamy is a fundamentalist Mormon practice, and why would someone practice it who wasn't passionate about the rest of the religion? As the show makes clear, it's not an easy life--what with worrying about being discovered and all.

I thought it was totally bogus that his third wife, Margene, wasn't even a Mormon but had married into this polygamous family. And when she suddenly decides that she wants to be baptized, it's polygamy and being part of the family that she wants to be baptized into. She clearly knows nothing about the actual religion.

And one final thing I have to get off my chest.... It cracks me up that he and his wives are having all of this hot sex all of the time. Very healthy, but I'd be really surprised if even 5% of Mormons have sex lives as lusty or varied as theirs.

I do love the show, though, and I think it captures the Utah/Mormon culture very well and quite respectfully, including some rather subtle things. (Of course, I'm not Mormon anymore and not invested in having a certain public image of my religion, so I'm probably more objective about the portrayal. I'm guessing that not all Mormons would feel it was treating them sympathetically.)

I love your take on this show. I am a big fan and its really cool to hear differing points of view on something I truly know little about (since I am not Mormon).

My question I guess would be, are their really families like this who are devoted in the practice of polygamy but not fundamentalists? I know I have seen families who practice polygamy that also are not Mormon but rather fundamental Christians.

[Mike'sgirl]

I want to know when season 2 starts!

[psycobabe007]

Originally Posted by Mike'sgirl

I want to know when season 2 starts!

June 11. The show has moved to Monday nights.

[Miss_Griss]

Originally Posted by psycobabe007

I love your take on this show. I am a big fan and its really cool to hear differing points of view on something I truly know little about (since I am not Mormon).

My question I guess would be, are their really families like this who are devoted in the practice of polygamy but not fundamentalists? I know I have seen families who practice polygamy that also are not Mormon but rather fundamental Christians.

Interesting. I didn't know that there were fundamentalist Christians who practiced polygamy. Where is that happening? I'd be interested to know more.

As for the Mormon angle, I'm no expert, but here's my opinion and limited knowledge. Sorry that it's so long.

I would say that any Mormons who are practicing polygamy are by definition fundamentalist (of the Mormon variety, which is not the same thing as Fundamentalist Christians). The reason I say that is that polygamy was at one point a central tenet of Mormonism. It was eliminated from active practice in 1896. At that time, the head of the church said that he had received a revelation saying that it shouldn't be actively practiced anymore, but most people (including the devout) basically accept that the reason this revelation was needed was because polygamy was blocking Utah's acceptance as a state.

(The church never actually condemned the practice--at least not at that point. I understand that they have since deleted the part of Joseph Smith writings that included the revelation on polygamy, but all of this happened after I left the Mormon Church, so I don't really know what the deal is on how they position polygamy now.)

Those who practice polygamy basically believe that it's still a true principle that the church sold out on, so I would call them fundamentalists in the sense that they believe things should be as they were originally. Many of these people (especially those in radical groups like Roman's) generally tend to be more rigorous in their practice of all aspects of the religion and believe in other bits of dogma (which I won't go into here, but which you'll hear Roman refer to occasionally) that were present in the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and which have since been either disavowed or sort of swept under the rug by the current "mainstream" version of the Mormon Church.

That said, there are different levels of fundamentalism among practitioners of polygamy. Groups like Roman's are the most fanatical. They may be off in the boonies on compounds like his or living in the suburbs of Salt Lake and running successful businesses like Bill's. There are quite a few polygamists around (about 2% of the population according to the NY Times article I'm linking to below).

Those who are quite strict dress in a certain way. (Nicky's look is a "high fashion" version of it--hair braided down the back of the head and long floral print dresses. That's why Barb was saying that Nicky might as well wear a sign saying she was a polygamist.) Most of the time nobody thinks much about them, although the attitudes reflected in the neighbors and the woman at work are pretty accurate depictions of the prejudice people feel.

When polygamists have shown up in the news in the past it's been because there has been a feud between rival groups and someone ended up getting killed. Lately, there's been more news coverage of young girls (like Rhonda, who seems a willing participant) being forced to marry older men or of the teenage boys who are routinely dumped in cities to fend for themselves (like Bill was), because they are seen as a threat for the young girls' attentions.

The fanatical groups get the attention, but I do think that there are probably more than a few families like Bill's and his co-worker's who are living the principle because they believe in it and are otherwise pretty normal.

If you want to read more about the issues, here's a New York Times article from the late 90s that talks about how things are currently:

Utah Struggles With a Revival of Polygamy

[Duxxy]

Ok I just finished watching the first season of this show, I must say, I don't love it. I like it, I don't know what kept me watching. The truth is that if I didnt' have all of the episodes in front of me at once I probably wouldn't have made a point of tuning in every week.
Like most of you, I can't stand Nicky. She's got all the 'warmth' of her mother (that's not saying much) and all of the cunning, conniving manipulation of her father (yikes!) She does seem to have a good heart.
Barb is, of course, my favourite. She's pragmatic and dependable and fairminded. Marjean is fun, flighty, frivolous and up for the challenge.

I don't understand how Barb got roped into polygamy. It sounds like Bill and Barb had a monogamous marriage for 7 years, then she got sick. Bill went to Roman for a loan and ended up with Nicky with the deal. Barb wasn't in much of a position to disagree at this point I guess. There's not enough said about Barb. Was she LSD or Mormon or was she a Polygmist? Was she totally new to it like Marjean?
Sorry but I don't see anything wrong with the way Bill and his best pal are living. Their families are totally self-sufficient, not relying on the state at all and all of the women were of legal age when he married them (and I'm not talking 16! I mean over 18)
Now life on the compound is another entity all together! Girls 'assigned' to be wives? Old, impotent men taking teens for a wife?! The strong-arming and manipulation of the residents, constantly living in fear for their lives or livelyhood. That's a BIG no.
If people want to live 'the principle' and they are of legal age (seriously if you have to be 21 to drink you should have to be 21 to get married too) and they can provide for their own families, I say why should we bother them?
Anyway..

Marjean pregnant? she can barely handle her 2 what is she going to do with 3? Nicky is just ick! Of the 3 wives she is the most vulnerable. If Bill did die or something happened to break the family apart Barb and Marjean would have no trouble living in the outside world. Nicky would have to go back to the compound because it's the only life she knows. She has no marketable skills and she's not even that attentive of a parent IMO.
Roman should just let Bill go.
Alby is just ick. Daddy's henchman. Possibly gay?
Joey's wife poisioning everyone that was mean to them was hilarious! Not nice but so funny in a passive/aggressive way.
What can happen to Bill now that he's been exposed?
Seriously, he lives a 'normal' life, one that most people believe is the norm anyway. So he has children with 3 different women, he supports them all. He's in a better position than say someone like Kevin Federline who has kids with multiple women and he doesn't support any of them.
I guess it carries stigma in Utah. I hope his business doesn't fail.
Next season could be very interesting. They could feature hate crimes and such.
They have to have Lois in every episode though she is too funny!
hmm I guess I enjoyed the series more than I first thought

[Miss_Griss]

Originally Posted by Duxxy

I don't understand how Barb got roped into polygamy. It sounds like Bill and Barb had a monogamous marriage for 7 years, then she got sick. Bill went to Roman for a loan and ended up with Nicky with the deal. Barb wasn't in much of a position to disagree at this point I guess. There's not enough said about Barb. Was she LSD or Mormon or was she a Polygmist? Was she totally new to it like Marjean?

Based on the scenes where Barb was talking with her sister (and the part where Barb's mother wants to see the kids but not Barb), it sounded like Barb had been a regular Mormon (LDS) before Bill talked her into becoming a polygamist, and her family is appalled that she made that choice. That may not have been apparent to people who aren't Mormons, but as someone who grew up in the Mormon faith and culture, the language the sister used made it clear to me that she was a Mormon. (Can't give specifics, because it's been a while since I watched it, but it was very clear at the time.)

I don't really understand how Bill was roped back into the whole polygamy thing either. The story seems to be that when Barb got sick and they needed help, they turned to family and went back to the compound for support--emotional as well as financial. As hostile to polygamy and the compound as Bill had been after being dumped as a young boy, I find it hard to believe that he just let go of all of that and went back to the bosom of these people who had so cruelly abandoned him.

To understand what he went through when he was expelled from the compound as a kid, check out this article:

Polygamy's 'Lost Boys' expelled from only life they knew - The Boston Globe

[Duxxy]

specific like "choose the right" sorry but that sounds creepy and cult-like to me.

I thought it was odd too that he went back to the life that abandoned him... well cast him out actually. I've seen a few documentaries on Lost boys and such. We have a sect here in Canada in a place called Bountiful and it's in the news quite often.

I like the message of the LDS tv commercials but I don't know how much of the actual religion I'd actually like.

I saw some super cute Mormons in the grocery store yesterday.. flirting with the deli girl

[barefootdyke]

from what i remember, didn't he take nikki on as a wife as a condition for his 'loan' from her dad?

Originally Posted by Duxxy

I like the message of the LDS tv commercials but I don't know how much of the actual religion I'd actually like.

i like them too.

unfortunately, for the denomination, that family values thing goes by the wayside when your family member is gay.