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Thread: Lost - Season 2

  1. #3091
    Wait, what? ArchieComic Fan's Avatar
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    nilesgirl - I wish I was that dedicated to a show! The names Sawyer has used are too funny and seem to fit. He may be a cad at times but his charm always makes up for it

  2. #3092
    FORT Fogey cricketeen's Avatar
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    ArchieComic Fan asked "is the baptism he performed even legitimate?" If Locke or anyone else or Charlie for that matter did the baptism would it be any less valid than Ekko doing it, if Ekko was not ordained? So maybe the baby still has the potential to turn out bad if the baptism wasn't "legal" in the eyes of the church.

    Do we even know if Claire is Catholic? She and Aaron are baptized as far as Charlie and Eko are concerned, but she may have a different feeling about that if she is not Catholic, since Eko is not really a priest.

    That's another thing that distracted me, why didn't Eko just forge his brother's signature on the "priest papers"? It's not like his brother could make them less of a lie.
    Last edited by cricketeen; 01-27-2006 at 08:23 AM. Reason: because I got a member name wrong
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  3. #3093
    Wait, what? ArchieComic Fan's Avatar
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    Yep, still so many unanswered questions.

    But I need to clarify my point I guess - I know you don't have to be Catholic to be baptized, don't most all religions practice baptism? My thought was, that baptisms are performed by the priest, pastor, etc. of whatever faith. If Ekko is just a regular Joe Schmo, than I was just wondering if the baptism is valid. But someone earlier pointed out that anyone can do a baptism so I guess she and the baby, for all intents and purposes, are now baptized. I'm glad she chose to have it done for herself too and that it was a private ceremony with just her and the baby and Ekko (or however you spell his name!)

  4. #3094
    FORT Fogey cricketeen's Avatar
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    I guess I wasn't being clear, either. I know some Christians who would not recognize it if the minister was not ordained. She doesn't seem to have much religion in her life, though, so she probably doesn't care. But does the island? (insert spooky music here)

    That got me to wondering. It takes 8 years of study to become a priest. I wonder if that was enough time for Eko to become one after his brother died? Perhaps feeling a sense of duty to continue where the brother left off. (editorial - probably not, given that he misspelled a book of the bible)

    Oh well, if it's important it will come up later, I'm sure. Nothing like beating a dead horse.



    Hey, Nilesgirl, Seeing all those nicknames together like that makes them funnier! I wonder if Josh comes up with them on his own.
    Last edited by cricketeen; 01-27-2006 at 09:24 AM. Reason: I think too much
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  5. #3095
    Bushbasher JFlo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bethw12000
    Eko's baptism comments bothered me. What religion is he supposed to be? The statues make me think Catholic, but his comment that Jesus' baptism cleansed him from sin were WAY off base. A fundamental fact of the Christian faith is that Jesus, the Son of God, was without sin. This is no small fact to overlook.
    You are absolutely correct. Eko does not have his theology down. According to Christian doctrine, Jesus was born without sin, as was Mary, and his baptism marked the moment where he actually TOOK ON man's sin, which goes hand in hand with his dying for our sins. (Am not preaching here, just an avid interest in theology.)
    Stay Gold, JFlo

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  6. #3096
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    You can become an ordained minister over the internet in less than half an hour. Just go to this website http://www.ulc.org/ to be ordained in the Church of Life. I know people who have (this or others) and then officiated marriage ceremonies. I really doubt that Claire is Catholic because if she was raised Catholic she would have been baptized as that is a fundament sacrement of that religion, but pretty much all Christian denominations recognize baptism as a sacrement. I didn't see anything in Eko's ceremony that struck me (I was raised Lutheran and have seen plenty of baptisms from a wide range of Christian religions) as "Catholic" per se, rather than just Christian. If you want to discuss Protestant philosophy, Martin Luther (the German dude from over 500 ago, not the US civil rights leader) had a lot of ideas to make religion more accessible to the people and not just the domain of ordained ministers. Luther would not have gone as far as Eko just "deciding" he was a minister if he never actually trained in religion, but it could certainly fall within the acceptable parameters of many religions, and whether or not that is "good enough" to mark Claire and Aaron as children of God or not won't be determined here on earth, will it.
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  7. #3097
    MRD
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchieComic Fan View Post
    Yep, still so many unanswered questions.

    But I need to clarify my point I guess - I know you don't have to be Catholic to be baptized, don't most all religions practice baptism? My thought was, that baptisms are performed by the priest, pastor, etc. of whatever faith. If Ekko is just a regular Joe Schmo, than I was just wondering if the baptism is valid. But someone earlier pointed out that anyone can do a baptism so I guess she and the baby, for all intents and purposes, are now baptized. I'm glad she chose to have it done for herself too and that it was a private ceremony with just her and the baby and Ekko (or however you spell his name!)
    No, you don't have to be catholic to be baptized, but I do "think" only the catholics believe that baptizing an infant removes the "original sin" the baby is born with. Catholic babies that die, do not go to heaven because they have not been cleansed of original sin. And the original sin refers back to the original sins of Adam and Eve. (correct me someone if I am wrong here)

    Several other churches (Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian, Lutheran) practice infant baptism but they do not believe in "original sin". The baptism
    is a rite where the parents agree to bring up the child in the Christian faith.

    Other denominations like Baptist, etc. do not baptise until the person has accepted Jesus as their own personal savior and will not baptize a child until they are old enough to be able to make that informed decision. These denominations practice "immersion" baptism where they person is "dunked" in a specially built tank or pool or in some cases rivers, etc. Typical age is usually after age 10 or so.

    Infant baptism usually is "sprinkled".
    And I do believe that the catholics also anoint the baby with oil along with the water.
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  8. #3098
    Wait, what? ArchieComic Fan's Avatar
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    I was raised catholic and baptized as a baby and made it to Confirmation but have to admit that I haven't practiced Catholicism for many years so I pretty much forgot just about everything I was taught. I did have my son baptized under the catholic religion 19 years ago and then when he was about 12 he was re-baptized at my sister-in-laws Baptist Church - he did the "accept Jesus as his Savior" thing and I was glad that he made that choice for himself but I'm also glad that I had him baptized as a baby too - sort of a "cover all the bases" type of attitude I guess

    I do hate the idea that any religion would make someone feel that their baby won't go to heaven if it's not baptized. I thought all children were innocent under the eyes of God and shouldn't be punished for what their parents do or don't do for them . But I'm no religious expert by any means, I kind of integrate many religious beliefs together to come up with my own sense about things - I don't believe in any one true Christian religion or that any of them are better than another - it seems to defeat the purpose that they all believe in God and Jesus but have their own ideas about how we get to heaven, making people feel guilty along the way if they don't believe "their" way - that to me isn't showing love and kindness and acceptance but more "if you don't believe things OUR way then you won't go to heaven". But I am a Christian, I just don't belong to any denomination.

    Okay, no more holy roller stuff from me - only show talk from now on lol!
    Last edited by ArchieComic Fan; 01-27-2006 at 11:44 AM.

  9. #3099
    Bushbasher JFlo's Avatar
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    A few other comments--

    -I for one do not think Claire is being irrational with Charlie. Charlie may need support from someone, but that person should be Jack, which was sufficiently established in this week's episode, by Jack making his "house call". While Claire and Charlie had established a friendship, she has to keep in mind that she really doesn't know him, or anything that he doesn't want to share with her. After all, they have only known each other for 50 days. Any single mother should be wary about inviting a man into her and her children's lives in so short a time. Social services would agree. She's not being irrational, she's being a mother.

    -That's not to say that all of her choices are spot on. She is putting way too much trust in Locke now. I think this is an age thing, she looks at him as a father figure and a huge support system. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that he doesn't look at their relationship the same way. I think he may be developing romantic feelings for her and this could be dangerous. Remember how he thought the phone sex operator really liked him?

    -In regards to Locke, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have never trusted him. Any good that he has done for anyone has been completely calculated. He is plotting something. We REALLY need more Locke flashbacks. We still don't know how he lost use of his legs, and what about the implications that he is part of some "Sons of Liberty" type underground group that bestows fake military rankings on its members. In the "Walkabout" episode he was referred to as a "General" over the phone, right?

    -Why WAS Eko "marking the trees"? And is it a coincidence that these are the ones that Charlie set on fire?

    -Where was Jack during the fire/Aaron abduction/Charlie pummeling?

    -Kate looked pretty jealous when she saw Jack and Ana Lucia together. It looks like they are still not talking. I actually like the Jack and AL camaraderie. I think it adds to both of their personalities that they find each other attractive.

    -I am so torn about Libby. If she is a "Clinical Psychologist" like she said, and she knows Hurley as a patient where she worked, then she is totally scamming him for his money. There is no other reason why a legitimate therapist would flirt with someone she knows has has psychological problems. If she was actually a patient (which would be more interesting) then she may or may not know about the money. Either way she is hiding something, and that crap about him stepping on her foot was just that, crap.

    - Loved the "You All Everybubbies" diaper commercial. Have you no pride???!!!
    Stay Gold, JFlo

    "Craft Idea: Want to prevent a rerun of the Gulf of Tonkin off the coast of Iran? Just send Britney to the Strait of Hormuz and drop her on the Frigate USS Ingraham." Paparazzi As Unexploited Guardians of Democracy by Cintra Wilson [cintrawilson.com]

  10. #3100
    FORT Fogey cricketeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchieComic Fan View Post
    I was raised catholic and baptized as a baby and made it to Confirmation but have to admit that I haven't practiced Catholicism for many years so I pretty much forgot just about everything I was taught. I did have my son baptized under the catholic religion 19 years ago and then when he was about 12 he was re-baptized at my sister-in-laws Baptist Church - he did the "accept Jesus as his Savior" thing and I was glad that he made that choice for himself but I'm also glad that I had him baptized as a baby too - sort of a "cover all the bases" type of attitude I guess

    I do hate the idea that any religion would make someone feel that their baby won't go to heaven if it's not baptized. I thought all children were innocent under the eyes of God and shouldn't be punished for what their parents do or don't do for them . But I'm no religious expert by any means, I kind of integrate many religious beliefs together to come up with my own sense about things - I don't believe in any one true Christian religion or that any of them are better than another - it seems to defeat the purpose that they all believe in God and Jesus but have their own ideas about how we get to heaven, making people feel guilty along the way if they don't believe "their" way - that to me isn't showing love and kindness and acceptance but more "if you don't believe things OUR way then you won't go to heaven". But I am a Christian, I just don't belong to any denomination.

    Okay, no more holy roller stuff from me - only show talk from now on lol!
    I promised myself that I wouldn't comment anymore on this, but "Limbo" - the place where Catholics believed unbaptized babies go - was supposed to be eliminated from Catholic teaching years ago. The nuns at my school (back in the dark ages) taught it as doctrine, but I looked it up and my reference says that it is a choice to believe in it or not.

    If you really care after all this, you can go here:
    http://www.americamagazine.org/gette...47&issueID=365

    They believe that baptism cleanses original sin from the soul, but not that an unbaptized baby can't go to heaven. They sprinkle and use oil, but they don't dunk. (- Makes me hungry for a donut. )

    I hope that makes you feel better, and I'm glad you covered all the bases.
    Last edited by cricketeen; 01-27-2006 at 12:19 PM.
    "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough." - Mario Andretti

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