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Thread: Grey's Anatomy

  1. #5881
    FORT Fogey causingchaos's Avatar
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky22 View Post
    Not sure if that was the case with this study, because somebody (Meredith?) mentioned that the people who didn't get the new experimental drug were just getting saline injected. That's not a standard treatment for Alzheimers. Therefore, one group was, in effect, being denied treatment. Meredith didn't want Adele to be in that group.
    Standard treatment for progressed alzheimers is no treatment. Saline is equivalent to no treatment.

  2. #5882
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Well, now that we all agree that one group is getting no treatment, then, again, I say that some would argue that it's unethical to withhold treatment from people who need it.

    Lucky22, I agree with both of your comments above. I think life is about making choices and if Derek makes the choice to hold his research study in higher regard then his marriage or the child they want to adopt, then Meredith is better without him. I also think that him saying what she did was wrong, is a personal judgment that just muddies the water in terms of the research. He could say, she didn't follow protocol or procedure, but to say she doesn't know the difference between right or wrong is just ridiculous.

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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by CMS View Post
    Well, now that we all agree that one group is getting no treatment, then, again, I say that some would argue that it's unethical to withhold treatment from people who need it.

    Lucky22, I agree with both of your comments above. I think life is about making choices and if Derek makes the choice to hold his research study in higher regard then his marriage or the child they want to adopt, then Meredith is better without him. I also think that him saying what she did was wrong, is a personal judgment that just muddies the water in terms of the research. He could say, she didn't follow protocol or procedure, but to say she doesn't know the difference between right or wrong is just ridiculous.
    In theory, if this was real life (the same real life that actually has nurses who work in hospitals unlike this show) many years would have been invested in this research project he's doing. People's lives may be changed by the outcome of the study if he can forth and get FDA approval for it. Merideth effectively jacked with the results of that study, put subsequent human subject studies on this treatment at risk, and delayed if not prevented FDA approval. The financial investment in these studies is serious. If one gets funding once for these and something like this happens you don't get a second chance at funding and there's every chance another researcher won't pick up where it was left off.

    It's unethical to provide experimental treatment to all people involved in the study at this point in the study. That happens in later stages of human subject studies once statistical significance can be proven due to the likelihood of side effects and the risk does not outweigh the benefit of it if there is no benefit to it, especially when benefit can only be proven by being compared to the standard of treatment which in the case of alzheimers there is no treatment for alzheimers progressed to the stage that they representing in the show.

    I would be beyond angry if Meredith had screwed with my study like that. She not only messed up his deal, but funding for the hospital for this deal, funding for future studies, messed it up for existing subjects. The ripple effect of her bad choice is unbelievable.

    It seems so logical and ethical to give everyone all the experimental treatments until you're stuck in the middle of it trying to balance risk and benefit and prove the effectiveness so more people can actually be helped or the treatment can be tweeked to help more people instead of just given out on a whim.

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    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    In a funded medical study, you've either to to play by the rules and guidelines, or risk your reputation and funding. Science doesn't allow for you to let your heart lead you.
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

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  5. #5885
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by prhoshay View Post
    In a funded medical study, you've either to to play by the rules and guidelines, or risk your reputation and funding. Science doesn't allow for you to let your heart lead you.
    Also in a medical study, the participants agree to the terms, ie. they may get the actual drug or they may get the placebo. This is how drug trials have to be carried out and the patients who sign on understand that. It isn't unethical; it's how scientific research HAS to be done in order to verify the safety and efficacy of new drugs.

    What Meredith did, even if her heart was in the right place, put the entire hospital at risk for medical ethics questions. She may have been trying to help one person but, if Derek's drug proved effective, he could have saved millions.
    Last edited by Critical; 05-22-2011 at 10:00 PM.
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by CMS View Post
    Well, now that we all agree that one group is getting no treatment, then, again, I say that some would argue that it's unethical to withhold treatment from people who need it.

    Lucky22, I agree with both of your comments above. I think life is about making choices and if Derek makes the choice to hold his research study in higher regard then his marriage or the child they want to adopt, then Meredith is better without him. I also think that him saying what she did was wrong, is a personal judgment that just muddies the water in terms of the research. He could say, she didn't follow protocol or procedure, but to say she doesn't know the difference between right or wrong is just ridiculous.
    CMS, that would hold if we already knew that the treatment worked and had no serious side effects (for example, the infamousTuskeegee study, where they withheld good treatments for syphyllis from infected men in the control group long after they knew that such treatment was safe and effective). But we (Derek, the govt., Meredith) don't know that yet, that's what the study is trying to show. There are many cases in which what seemed like logical treatment turned out to have major side effects that were worse than the original disease (e.g., if their treatment killed people quickly). One example is estrogen replacement therapy for menopausal women---who would have guessed what the side effects turned out to be.
    Once Derek's treatment is proven to work and be safe, then they should give it to everyone...sometimes if it is clear a new therapy is working well they will stop the study mid-study and give it everyone.

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    Got wings 9/19/2012 buglover's Avatar
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    My son is part of a study for cancer. We were told in the beginning that basically it is phase 1 which means the clinical part is over, everyone will receive the treatment however this phase is really to see how it effects people, i.e, whether they get too sick to continue or die. Yippee.... lol. Luckily we have not had too many horrible side effects and it appears to be doing something to his cancer in a good way. It sucks that it has to be the way it is but procedures have to remain in place to safeguard treatment for the rest of the population.
    Yup, with donuts!!

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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Wow, just because I am putting for an alternative point of view, does not mean that I do not understand how medical trials are run or how non-medical research is done . Also, I have been saying that some could argue that it is unethical, I did not indicate my opinion on the matter. I mean, didn't the episode include a scene where the wife of a person in the trial was arguing that there was medication in the hospital that could help her husband? I got the impression that she didn't think it was fair that her husband wasn't getting the medication regardless of whatever she may have agreed upon at the beginning of the trial or whether the treatment has been proven to be effective.

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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Thus the difference between scientific people and non-scientific people. And there is nothing wrong with either category.....they just exist.

    I have a scientific mind. My son....my one and only....definitely has a non-scientific mind. It drives me CRAZY , but that's just the way it is. We work through it, even though it breaks my heart!!!
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

    When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, you know which one you hit by the one that yelps!

  10. #5890
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    I watched the last few episodes of GA's episodes over the weekend. I regret I've been missing out. I think the show's charm has returned. I will keep turning in for sure.

    REF. the Research Trials. I'm pretty much a rules player. I'm one who's in favor of following the letter of the law, even if a killer might go free, but as I have gotten older, I am now more understanding when someone makes a hard choice. Yes, it might be the wrong thing to do, but was it the only thing you could do and live with yourself. That's pretty tough. I honestly don't think I would do what Meredith did, but I can understand her. If it messed up my Study and ruined my career, I might not be so forgiving, but I think I could understand it.

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