Grey's Anatomy

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Originally Posted by Eastcoastmom

Well, short of abstinence, nothing is 100% effective. What I am wondering is if Christina and Owen had a discussion about children prior to getting married. If Christina never wants children and Owen does, well, then perhaps they shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. I understand Christina feeling that now is not the right time for her, in her opinion, to be having a child. She wants to get her career in full-swing. But does she ever want children? That's what I'd like to know b/c I don't remember her having this discussion with Owen. His throwing her out was kind of harsh, though.

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The only 100% ways are hysterectomy or abstinence. However, I would guess with a combination of condom and birth control that an oopsie wouldn't have happened since statistically that's quite difficult to do using two methods of birth control effectively. I never understood her thing either. If she doesn't want children then take steps to prevent it. Don't just go out and do the deed and then act surprised when an oopsie happens.

And from what I remember this is not her first rodeo with an unplanned issue like this.

I didn't need a mind blowing finale but give me something... anything... to get engaged in. Really at this point I saw the plane crash and thought "really...really another epic disaster? Really????" I mean they had that thing after the shooting. Callie's crash. This plane crash and I'm kind of burnt out on that thing with them.

I like seeing Bailey as a normal woman with normal feelings. She is not a robot, and I am glad to see her being interested in that handsome man. He seems to be supportive, and Bailey needs that. It is possible for her to be a top-notch doctor/surgeon and a normal woman with normal feelings, too.

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Originally Posted by causingchaos

The only 100% ways are hysterectomy or abstinence. However, I would guess with a combination of condom and birth control that an oopsie wouldn't have happened since statistically that's quite difficult to do using two methods of birth control effectively. I never understood her thing either. If she doesn't want children then take steps to prevent it. Don't just go out and do the deed and then act surprised when an oopsie happens.

And from what I remember this is not her first rodeo with an unplanned issue like this.

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And just think - these characters spent a week or two in medical school and they all know how it happens. Yes, this is Christina's second go-round. I think maybe her "now" feelings have something to do with her first baby she lost and how it seemed to crush her spirit for a while.

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Originally Posted by Dicechick

And just think - these characters spent a week or two in medical school and they all know how it happens. Yes, this is Christina's second go-round. I think maybe her "now" feelings have something to do with her first baby she lost and how it seemed to crush her spirit for a while.

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I have to say my feelings on the whole abortion issue aside I'm disappointed in her character that after her first oopsie combined with being in med school she hasn't figured out how to prevent these things and at htis point appears to be using abortion as birth control.

I just watched the episode yesterday and is it wrong that I am kind of hoping that Meredith and Cristina move on and don't take Derek or Owen back? The whole "if you love me" argument is so manipulative - but I totally agree with the comments above, if Cristina doesn't want a child then she should be using more preventative measures and not using abortion as a method of birth control. And Derek's whole argument of "I don't know if I can raise a child with someone who doesn't know the difference between right and wrong" is crap. So he is saying that it was wrong to give Adele the medication? It seems that both Derek and Owen are having hissyfits and need to grow up a bit.

He's saying that it is wrong to manipulate the study for ANY reason. The rules of medical studies are well known, and they are what they are. It has nothing to do with Adele, the person. These studies can't be done on a personal basis and still be valid.

But I do see how this decision of Meredith's did not really affect the study. It just flipped a decision to a personal preference, but the numbers didn't change. Hard when your friend is involved....but everybody has friends, so it's not fair.

It takes forever to get anything done in this country. Is it like that in all countries? They would have us think that it's not, but who really knows the truth?

I understand how research is done and I disagree that this has nothing to do with Adele - Meredith's decision has everything to do with Adele. I think that there is also an argument that medical research that excludes some people from medical treatment is unethical (and yes, I understand that it is argued that it needs to be done to "prove" that something works).

I also understand that Derek feels that it is wrong to manipulate the study for any reason but if he can't even try to understand why Meredith did it, then if I was Meredith, I wouldn't want to raise a child with him.

I understand the argument about the integrity of the study, but I think Derek was going way overboard in accusing Meredith of not knowing the difference between right and wrong. If that one act of hers was all he knew of her, then perhaps I could see him making that judgment, but he's known her for years through all kinds of situations both professional and personal, so saying she doesn't know the difference between right and wrong is overly harsh. Be pissed at her for tampering with the study, but don't say something like that, which he knows isn't true. I'm sure he'll apologize, but some statements and accusations can't just be erased with an apology. I wouldn't want a husband who would be so harsh because I'd be concerned he would do the same thing to our children when they made a mistake or had an error in judgment, especially from good intentions.

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Originally Posted by CMS

I understand how research is done and I disagree that this has nothing to do with Adele - Meredith's decision has everything to do with Adele. I think that there is also an argument that medical research that excludes some people from medical treatment is unethical (and yes, I understand that it is argued that it needs to be done to "prove" that something works).

I also understand that Derek feels that it is wrong to manipulate the study for any reason but if he can't even try to understand why Meredith did it, then if I was Meredith, I wouldn't want to raise a child with him.

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The standard in scientific research regarding treatments for people is that one group gets the standard treatment for whatever disorder they are looking at and the other group gets the experimental treatment. It's ethical since one group is still getting the standard treatment for the issue and they aren't being denied any treatment. Then if there is a statistically significant difference between the groups you can say that your treatment worked and begin the process for FDA approval for said treatment who also will weigh in the risks that were discovered to occur with the treatment (side effects etc.).

To get through the entire process of these studies from animal to human testing and then through the phases of human testing with all the processes that are involved to get permission (human subject testing is no walk in the park permission wise for any research) is long and tedious. Having used human subjects in a non-medical study I would have had a similar reaction at that point. I can't blame him for his instantaneous reaction to her tampering with the study which potentially will nullify it at a late stage in the game. It ruins his sample pool as he can't use the same population to sample from. It ruins the study as a whole. He would have to start over and getting permission after a faux pax like that becomes more difficult. Meredith should have known better. The chief should have known better than to push that issue knowing how it could compromise the entire shebang.

However, like I said before he had already tampered with his study by letting Adele in it. So he can't condemn her for her actions when his could just as easily be scrutinized.

Also who is he to talk about right and wrong? He's not known for his highly ethical behavior basically ever. He was married and cheating on his wife. He was the one who was taking risks in surgeries after his whole shooting incident...

I guess I'm having some issues with the continuity of the show at this point over all. This season didn't do a whole lot for me and it feels like they're jacking around with some of the continuity on issues like this or Owen's sudden lapse in PTSD issues. Yang and her oopsie. I don't know.

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Originally Posted by causingchaos

The standard in scientific research regarding treatments for people is that one group gets the standard treatment for whatever disorder they are looking at and the other group gets the experimental treatment. It's ethical since one group is still getting the standard treatment for the issue and they aren't being denied any treatment. Then if there is a statistically significant difference between the groups you can say that your treatment worked and begin the process for FDA approval for said treatment who also will weigh in the risks that were discovered to occur with the treatment (side effects etc.).

To get through the entire process of these studies from animal to human testing and then through the phases of human testing with all the processes that are involved to get permission (human subject testing is no walk in the park permission wise for any research) is long and tedious. Having used human subjects in a non-medical study I would have had a similar reaction at that point. I can't blame him for his instantaneous reaction to her tampering with the study which potentially will nullify it at a late stage in the game. It ruins his sample pool as he can't use the same population to sample from. It ruins the study as a whole. He would have to start over and getting permission after a faux pax like that becomes more difficult. Meredith should have known better. The chief should have known better than to push that issue knowing how it could compromise the entire shebang.

However, like I said before he had already tampered with his study by letting Adele in it. So he can't condemn her for her actions when his could just as easily be scrutinized.

Also who is he to talk about right and wrong? He's not known for his highly ethical behavior basically ever. He was married and cheating on his wife. He was the one who was taking risks in surgeries after his whole shooting incident...

I guess I'm having some issues with the continuity of the show at this point over all. This season didn't do a whole lot for me and it feels like they're jacking around with some of the continuity on issues like this or Owen's sudden lapse in PTSD issues. Yang and her oopsie. I don't know.

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Not sure if that was the case with this study, because somebody (Meredith?) mentioned that the people who didn't get the new experimental drug were just getting saline injected. That's not a standard treatment for Alzheimers. Therefore, one group was, in effect, being denied treatment. Meredith didn't want Adele to be in that group.