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Thread: Grey's Anatomy

  1. #4031
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2438950;
    I guess I'm just not willing to judge and dismiss a man based on speculation about actions that I've never seen, nor heard reported by others. It is just as easy to speculate that he was not remorseful behind the scenes as it is to speculate that he was even more sincere and remorseful behind the scenes. We don't know if either is true, but we do know what was presented publicly. Publicly, he asked his castmates to forgive him for doing something he was sorry for. Publicly, they've denied him that forgiveness. To me, the ugly act there is and always will be the refusal to forgive. Grudges are even less attractive than stringy unkept hair.
    Except, to me, his apology sounded much less like it was sincere and much more for PR. He is not Burke. People might miss Burke, but his character his not his personality. He always sounded arrogant to me in interviews and someone who is able to use such and ugly word in such an ugly context is an ugly person to me, apology or not.

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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Ok, I'm torn as to whether the rest of the cast were "justified" in not forgiving him, as they might know more about the sincerity of his apology (or they're all just junior high kids). However, what irked me was Mr. Washington referring to himself in the third person in his statement:
    He's now working on an indie thriller, The Least of These, and he isn't dwelling on whether the firing will affect his career. "I can only apologize so many times," he says. "I can only accept so much responsibility. All the players involved have taken care of what we needed to take care of in-house – and the media took it in a different direction. I hope that everyone is happy for the outcome for Isaiah, but Isaiah will go on and do what I love to do."
    Not only did he refer to himself in the third person twice in one sentence, he reverted to "I" for the third reference - very odd sentence structure. Reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with "The Jimmy" who annoyed everyone with refering to himself that way. Dork.
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2438950;
    I guess I'm just not willing to judge and dismiss a man based on speculation about actions that I've never seen, nor heard reported by others. It is just as easy to speculate that he was not remorseful behind the scenes as it is to speculate that he was even more sincere and remorseful behind the scenes. We don't know if either is true, but we do know what was presented publicly. Publicly, he asked his castmates to forgive him for doing something he was sorry for. Publicly, they've denied him that forgiveness. To me, the ugly act there is and always will be the refusal to forgive. Grudges are even less attractive than stringy unkept hair.
    Yes, publicly he has asked for forgiveness, but he also used the word several more times in the process of asking his co-workers to forgive him. To me, that speaks volumes.
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    There have been a few interviews with Katy Heigle and she has alluded to the fact that most of the cast haven't put it behind them. She never speaks warmly of him and considering that she is very close to TR I would assume that she would know the situation between them better than anyone. Also, he DID put Patrick in a chokehold. I'm not sure I would want someone with a violent temper working with me. I can't find the video anymore where the cast was backstage at an awards show and he used the F bomb again. The cast was smiley and happy and when he said that....every single face just kind of changed. They were not happy. So, I tend to believe that his attitude when not around the press hasn't changed much.

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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    I also read that his physical altercation with Dempsey was not the first time that he had gotten physical with someone on one of his jobs. True? Wouldn't really surprise me.
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    I'd seen the same thing, prhoshay. Here's an article that mentions some history of physical altercations on the set: Isaiah Washington's firing a business decision - Television - MSNBC.com
    There may have been more behind the decision than intolerant language. Bryan Birge, who was working as a costumer in 1997 on the police drama “High Incident,” said Washington erupted in anger on the set and then grabbed him after Birge asked him to remove a magazine from his pocket for an upcoming scene.

    “It was bizarre,” Birge told The Associated Press. “The guy is less than easy to be around.”
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  7. #4037
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2438950;
    I guess I'm just not willing to judge and dismiss a man based on speculation about actions that I've never seen, nor heard reported by others. It is just as easy to speculate that he was not remorseful behind the scenes as it is to speculate that he was even more sincere and remorseful behind the scenes. We don't know if either is true, but we do know what was presented publicly. Publicly, he asked his castmates to forgive him for doing something he was sorry for. Publicly, they've denied him that forgiveness. To me, the ugly act there is and always will be the refusal to forgive. Grudges are even less attractive than stringy unkept hair.
    this is an issue i'm very passionate about. Gay Rights and the offshoots of such are close to my heart. I'm proud to call many gay people my close friends and I even worked at the Gay and Lesbian center for a few years (which was what i worked my way up to when persuing non profit world)

    here's why i was offended by Isiah and don't feel bad about him being fired:

    ok, you have the first episode that, admittedly, no one in the public was witness to. but from many sources, including castmates, it became clear that not only did he call TR a "f****t" but he also pushed Dempsey up against a wall, choking him. Aside from the slur, the violence would be a very large red flag and at any business, not just entertainment, strict actions would be taken. However, having spent about 7 years in the film industry, i know that when on a TV show, or movie, the cast and crew become quite close, almost like a family and it seems that that display of unmitigated rage was almost shocking. plus there have been reports that he was difficult on other sets. again, not proven, but it's out there.

    so, okay, you have that scenario. what bothers me about that one is that it essentially forced TR out of the closet. The internet was abuzz about it and questioning his sexuality and TR did a courageous thing by saying "i'm gay". Had the incident not happened, he's stated himself he wouldn't have put his personal life on display, because he doesn't choose to reveal too much about his personal life - gay or not gay. but he felt he needed to as it was important.

    ok, cut to the golden globes, and here is where i take issue with the post quoted because they state that we, the audience, never saw or heard his "actions". this is patently false. after Grey's won the Golden Globe they went back to the press room backstage, as is typical for winners, and stood as a group with Shonda in front at the mic fielding questions. Isiah was at the very end on the left side I believe. A question was asked about the atmosphere on the set after Isiah uttered the gay slur.

    At that point, Isiah literally ran to the microphone grabbed it from shonda and said "I never called TR a f****t. Didn't happen".

    That word is like the N word for black people. it is completely degrading and used in a derogatory manner. And although at that press conference Isiah didn't call TR that again, he did use the slur again, while denying it ever happened in the first place, which we would later come to find out from Katie Hiegle and TR himself, did in fact definitely happen.

    There was no need for him to run up and reopen old wounds and lie about it and bring the focus back to something unpleasant and hurt his alleged friend TR again.

    So, while he didn't call TR that name again to his face, as he did the first time, he brought it back up, lied and did it in front of nearly a hundred members of the press (it's easily found on youtube, if anyone doubts me)

    I think what that signified to people was that Isiah hadn't actually learned from the mistake he made - in referring to a gay man as a f****t. Theoretically, he could have misspoke and felt truly regretful, but the fact that he was willing to say it again, bring it up again, and in front of press, indicates that he did not learn from his mistake, that it wasn't something he was ashamed of.

    So then he goes to Rehab. Rehab???? for using a slur? okay. Then he does the PSA. Fine. That's great. But I'd wager that the PSA came off to most people as a bit more like him fulfilling his duties to get out of trouble as opposed to being truly remorseful. This can also be concluded by TR's statements that they aren't friends and there was tension.

    We've all said dumb things that we wish we hadn't. things that hurt people. But if you call someone the N word, to their face, no one expects any sort of leniency for you. If it happened in a workplace, that employee would be reprimanded harshly or fired. The same goes for the "F" word. Gay slurs are just the same and not only that, it led to TR having to make the choice to come out publicly or not.

    None of us will ever truly know what happened and how it all went down nor will we know if Isiah is honestly sorry and knows what he did and is remorseful.

    But aside from that. Just the simple fact that he used such a high profile platform as the press junket backstage at the Golden Globes to not only lie, but to utter the phrase again, speaks volumes. That alone, and his subsequent firing, is a small step in the right direction towards Gay Rights.

    All that being said (and sorry for the long post, this is just something i really care about), i don't HATE Isiah. I'm sure that he may be a kind individual who is a bit ignorant. i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I like the precedent this has set. even if it is a small one.

    There's too much in our world - hatred towards people of any color other than white, hatred of homosexuals, hatred of very overweight people, hatred, though much less common, of women, etc. - that needs to be addressed and dealt with in the hopes that we can truly be on an equal playing field. And it probably won't happen for quite some time. but people who are subject to ridicule and namecalling because of something they can't choose (e.g. being black, being female) can really wear you down. Not to mention the fact that half of my gay friends have been shunned by their family for simply being born that way. NONE of them would choose this hard path but accept that they are who they are. Some were kicked out in high school and on the streets, some have mothers who won't speak to them, a few have been beaten up simply because they are attracted to the same sex. is that right?

    so, this Grey's issue? in the grand scheme of things, not that big of a deal. but in the Gay Rights issue, a small step towards something positive.

    SORRY SO LONG! seriously, just really passionate about equal rights
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  8. #4038
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2438870;
    I feel bad for him. I feel very bad for him. He made a mistake, and did something bad. But he took more than enough action to right that wrong. If his castmates refuse to forgive him, then I'm more turned off by their ugly action than I am by his. But it doesn't surprise me at all that Chandra Wilson has called him. That woman is a class act any way you define the words.
    I'm right with you.

    Especially lately, I've become increasingly skeptical of almost anything I read in the press, and ESPECIALLY one of these stories. Everyone, from Isaiah to TR Knight to the media types reporting this, has their own agenda. Either way, if something more newsworthy than an on-set scuffle is happening back in October, this doesn't come up at the Golden Globes and Isaiah Washington still has a job.

    Yesterday a friend was telling me about how a friend of hers was telling her about this working relationship that he had with someone, and a couple months after the fact, she read a story that conveyed exactly the opposite sentiment.

    So who really knows what happened? I'd take these bits with a grain of salt.

    Of course, the real irony is that in a way, Isaiah Washington does stand to benefit from this. His name is a hell of a lot bigger now than it once was, and as they say, "The only bad press is no press." He'll get jobs.

  9. #4039
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    I expect he'll get work easily enough. Throttling someone like Dempsey for (projectedly and no doubt no more than partially) standing up for a slacker wouldn't necessarily be a turn-off to a prospective producer or director. Going into maddened mode over a costumer's request to remove a magazine from his problem might be more problematic.

    I didn't see Washington's series of apologies as being sincere at all. He didn't convey the impression of one who believed he'd done wrong, at least not as it pertains to what he was charged, tried and convicted of.

    An extorted or otherwise coerced apology isn't worth the air it takes to mutter it.

  10. #4040
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    Re: Grey's Anatomy

    In all honesty, the appearance of sincerity in his apology doesn't matter worth a hill of beans to me. I don't know the guy, so I can't judge the sincerity of his actions. His level of remorse is in his heart, and none of us have the ability to accurately measure it. As I see it, relying on some measure of remorse is nothing more than excuse to feel good about not doing what should be done. I come from the school of thought that believes that in saying As we forgive those who trespass against us, that "as we" is the most powerful clause ever uttered by a person.

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