Lost - Season 1. - Page 75

norm · 10-22-2004, 06:04 AM

Locke's first name is John. John Locke was an English philosopher who said man in a natural state was evil, I believe.

Other names, Sawyer, like Tom Sawyer maybe?

Can't think of others right now.

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Gutmutter · 10-22-2004, 06:45 AM

Not far-reaching at all Kaky. A lot of novels use that device and it always aggravates me because a lot of the references are outside my previous knowledge. Since most of the names are so common - Jack, Kate, Charley, etc. if that's their ploy, they'd better give us some better clues. I do like the Locke annalogy, though. At this point he is the only one with a key to the island/monster.

Norm! You may be on to something. I did a quick search on John Locke and found:
*He was very interested in what our limits are to understanding the physical world.
*He was interested in EXPERIMENTAL SCIENCE
*He theorized that because of the variety of human experience there can be no general communality of thought assumed.
*He thinks that we receive sensations from the physical world as seperate and unmixed and then our minds combine them into complex unities...

sort of like the show is giving us character backgrounds one at a time and then we assemble what we know into the interrelated social fabric of the show. Remember, even the actors don't know each others backgrounds ahead of time.

toque · 10-22-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gutmutter

That's it? Was he beligerent when he complained about the drink? I've heard so much about Jack's "drinking problem" here, I thought it was a given. Now I'm inclined to agree with whoever (sorry) pointed out that if he had a problem he would have been looking through the wreckage for the tiny bottles. He was definitely told over and over at a formative age .

I think there's way more argument on this thread against Jack have a drinking problem than for. It was just a thought... and I know I've changed my mind on the subject...

Norm, very cool. Thanks for finding out about John Locke's name...

Jay · 10-22-2004, 10:05 AM

I'm also not buying the Jack's-dad-rising-from-the-dead theory. Someone (sorry, I forgot who!) had posted a message saying that everything that happens on the island can be explained by pseudo-science.

Oh, the diary on ABC's website has been updated.

ADKLove · 10-22-2004, 10:33 AM

Re: Locke

Quote:

Originally Posted by touque

Maybe his paralysis in itself was psychological.

You're good touque. I like this line of thinking.....

I also am going to try to match the other characters names with literary references / philosophers / historical figures i.e John Locke. I think thats a great catch, norm and Kaky

toque · 10-22-2004, 12:48 PM

Oh, adk,

, you'll probably regret encouraging me...

(i seem to be having a hard time finding their full names... the official site only lists their first or last... makes it difficult.)

I believe next week's episode is called "House of the Rising Sun"

So, to get ahead of ourselves, it's also a song, (by "The Animals", of all things...

)
Here's the lyrics...

The Animals

HOUSE OF THE RISING SUN
(Price)

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God I know I'm one

My mother was a tailor
She sewed my new bluejeans
My father was a gamblin' man
Down in New Orleans

Now the only thing a gambler needs
Is a suitcase and trunk
And the only time he's satisfied
Is when he's on a drunk

------ organ solo ------

Oh mother tell your children
Not to do what I have done
Spend your lives in sin and misery
In the House of the Rising Sun

Well, I got one foot on the platform
The other foot on the train
I'm goin' back to New Orleans
To wear that ball and chain

Well, there is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy
And God I know I'm one

-Could it be that Sun used to have a "career" that would leave Jin having trouble trusting her???
-Also, once again we have a reference to addictions, seems to becoming a theme.

ADKLove · 10-22-2004, 12:58 PM

Don't regret it at all touque. The song is actually a really old one, and I think it was also recorded by Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie and maybe The Allman Brothers, too??

What is interesting is that house of the Rising Sun has been talked about as a euphemism for a brothel. Reread the words, and you'll see it. (ETA: just actually READ your posts and seems you already knew that)

Hmmm - maybe Sun was "saved" from a brothel by her husband......or maybe sold to her "husband" ????

toque · 10-22-2004, 01:01 PM

Here's another set of Rising Sun lyrics... with some more info...

Back in the early 20s, the name "Rising Sun" was popularly attributed to brothels in our Anglo/American culture. The traditional version of "The House of the Rising Sun" speaks, not of a boy's experience, but of a girl corrupted into a life of ruin.
Here from Lomax's book are the traditional lyrics :

There is a house in New Orleans
They call the Rising Sun.
It's been the ruin of many a poor girl,
and me, O God, for one.

If I had listened what Mamma said,
I'd 'a' been at home today.
Being so young and foolish, poor boy,
let a rambler lead me astray.

Go tell my baby sister
never do like I have done
to shun that house in New Orleans
they call the Rising Sun.

My mother she's a tailor;
she sold those new blue jeans.
My sweetheart, he's a drunkard, Lord, Lord,
drinks down in New Orleans.

The only thing a drunkard needs
is a suitcase and a trunk.
The only time he's satisfied
is when he's on a drunk.

Fills his glasses to the brim,
passes them around
only pleasure he gets out of life
is hoboin' from town to town.

One foot is on the platform
and the other one on the train.
I'm going back to New Orleans
to wear that ball and chain.

Going back to New Orleans,
my race is almost run.
Going back to spend the rest of my days
beneath that Rising Sun.

That's what I was thinking too, ADK. Now I can't wait for next week's show!

JulyMeg · 10-22-2004, 02:21 PM

Going along with people's names... Wasn't it revealed through a flashback that Jack's last name is "Shepherd"? As in, the flock needs a shepherd-- the same idea that Locke was telling him in the jungle: "These people need a leader."

ADKLove · 10-22-2004, 02:26 PM

Is Sawyer a first or last name? Been googling, and have a few leads.......

10-22-2004, 06:45 AM	#742
Gutmutter volcano goddess Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: about to erupt Posts: 6,167	Not far-reaching at all Kaky. A lot of novels use that device and it always aggravates me because a lot of the references are outside my previous knowledge. Since most of the names are so common - Jack, Kate, Charley, etc. if that's their ploy, they'd better give us some better clues. I do like the Locke annalogy, though. At this point he is the only one with a key to the island/monster. Norm! You may be on to something. I did a quick search on John Locke and found: He was very interested in what our limits are to understanding the physical world. He was interested in EXPERIMENTAL SCIENCE He theorized that because of the variety of human experience there can be no general communality of thought assumed. He thinks that we receive sensations from the physical world as seperate and unmixed and then our minds combine them into complex unities... sort of like the show is giving us character backgrounds one at a time and then we assemble what we know into the interrelated social fabric of the show. Remember, even the actors don't know each others backgrounds ahead of time. __________________ Count your blessings! Last edited by Gutmutter; 10-22-2004 at 07:14 AM.

10-22-2004, 10:05 AM	#744
Jay You're a mean one Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,268	I'm also not buying the Jack's-dad-rising-from-the-dead theory. Someone (sorry, I forgot who!) had posted a message saying that everything that happens on the island can be explained by pseudo-science. Oh, the diary on ABC's website has been updated. Last edited by Jay; 10-22-2004 at 10:14 AM.

10-22-2004, 12:48 PM	#746
toque FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,075	Oh, adk, , you'll probably regret encouraging me... (i seem to be having a hard time finding their full names... the official site only lists their first or last... makes it difficult.) I believe next week's episode is called "House of the Rising Sun" So, to get ahead of ourselves, it's also a song, (by "The Animals", of all things... ) Here's the lyrics... The Animals HOUSE OF THE RISING SUN (Price) There is a house in New Orleans They call the Rising Sun And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy And God I know I'm one My mother was a tailor She sewed my new bluejeans My father was a gamblin' man Down in New Orleans Now the only thing a gambler needs Is a suitcase and trunk And the only time he's satisfied Is when he's on a drunk ------ organ solo ------ Oh mother tell your children Not to do what I have done Spend your lives in sin and misery In the House of the Rising Sun Well, I got one foot on the platform The other foot on the train I'm goin' back to New Orleans To wear that ball and chain Well, there is a house in New Orleans They call the Rising Sun And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy And God I know I'm one -Could it be that Sun used to have a "career" that would leave Jin having trouble trusting her??? -Also, once again we have a reference to addictions, seems to becoming a theme. Last edited by toque; 10-22-2004 at 12:51 PM.

10-22-2004, 12:58 PM	#747
ADKLove Leave No Trace Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Seems I'm Lost. Age: 42 Posts: 2,071	Don't regret it at all touque. The song is actually a really old one, and I think it was also recorded by Leadbelly, Woody Guthrie and maybe The Allman Brothers, too?? What is interesting is that house of the Rising Sun has been talked about as a euphemism for a brothel. Reread the words, and you'll see it. (ETA: just actually READ your posts and seems you already knew that) Hmmm - maybe Sun was "saved" from a brothel by her husband......or maybe sold to her "husband" ???? __________________ Love many, trust a few, and always paddle your own canoe Last edited by ADKLove; 10-22-2004 at 01:06 PM.

10-22-2004, 02:26 PM	#750
ADKLove Leave No Trace Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Seems I'm Lost. Age: 42 Posts: 2,071	Is Sawyer a first or last name? Been googling, and have a few leads....... __________________ Love many, trust a few, and always paddle your own canoe

10-22-2004, 06:04 AM	#741
norm FORT Fan Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 170	Locke's first name is John. John Locke was an English philosopher who said man in a natural state was evil, I believe. Other names, Sawyer, like Tom Sawyer maybe? Can't think of others right now.

10-22-2004, 01:01 PM	#748
toque FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,075	Here's another set of Rising Sun lyrics... with some more info... Back in the early 20s, the name "Rising Sun" was popularly attributed to brothels in our Anglo/American culture. The traditional version of "The House of the Rising Sun" speaks, not of a boy's experience, but of a girl corrupted into a life of ruin. Here from Lomax's book are the traditional lyrics : There is a house in New Orleans They call the Rising Sun. It's been the ruin of many a poor girl, and me, O God, for one. If I had listened what Mamma said, I'd 'a' been at home today. Being so young and foolish, poor boy, let a rambler lead me astray. Go tell my baby sister never do like I have done to shun that house in New Orleans they call the Rising Sun. My mother she's a tailor; she sold those new blue jeans. My sweetheart, he's a drunkard, Lord, Lord, drinks down in New Orleans. The only thing a drunkard needs is a suitcase and a trunk. The only time he's satisfied is when he's on a drunk. Fills his glasses to the brim, passes them around only pleasure he gets out of life is hoboin' from town to town. One foot is on the platform and the other one on the train. I'm going back to New Orleans to wear that ball and chain. Going back to New Orleans, my race is almost run. Going back to spend the rest of my days beneath that Rising Sun. That's what I was thinking too, ADK. Now I can't wait for next week's show!

10-22-2004, 02:21 PM	#749
JulyMeg Defending the FORT Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 224	Going along with people's names... Wasn't it revealed through a flashback that Jack's last name is "Shepherd"? As in, the flock needs a shepherd-- the same idea that Locke was telling him in the jungle: "These people need a leader."