Lost - Season 1. - Page 117

twobndixie · 11-07-2004, 04:48 PM

SPOILER ***********!!!!! DON'T READ ANY FURTHER!!!

Ok I am telling you I am going to put a SPOILER here so don't read any further.

I don't know how to do that invisible thing.

Over on the ABC board there is the lost game and they give you clues each week to the next week. This week there is the "Watership Down book" This book is written by Richard Adams about escaping a totalitarian society. This is the book Sawyer is reading.

Now from Amazon.com some info on Adams next book Shardik was Adams's 1974 follow-up to his phenomenally popular debut, Watership Down. The title character is a gigantic bear who is the god of the primitive Ortelgan people. The hunter Kelderek becomes Shardik's greatest disciple and, eventually, ruler when the bear finally does make its return. On the surface, the book works as a fantasy adventure; on a deeper level, it explores our relationship with the divine. No matter what you want to see in it, Shardik is a good read.

In the book the bear swims away to a weird island. And Sawyer killed the bear right?

More info on Shardik- Shardik is a fantasy of tragic character, centered on the long-awaited reincarnation of the gigantic bear Shardik and his appearance among the half-barbaric Ortelgan people. Mighty, ferocious, and unpredictable,Shardik changes the life of every person in the story. His advent commences a momentous chain of events. Kelderek the hunter, who loves and trusts the great bear, is swept on by destiny to become first devotee and then prophet, thenvictorious soldier, then ruler of an empire and priest-king of Lord Shardik-Messenger of God-only to discover ever-deeper layers of meaning implicit in his passionate belief in the bear's divinity.

So, don't know what it means but we know that the props are important!

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Lucy · 11-07-2004, 05:06 PM

Thanks for the spoiler warning, Twobndixie.

For those of you who frantically scrolled past it with your eyes closed, I think it's more of a theory than a spoiler. And it also fits with some theories that others have discussed in here. Quite interesting.

And to do spoilers, put [spoiler], like that, in brackets, then type in what you want to hide, then put brackets, back-slash, and spoiler again. Like [/ spoiler] but without the space.

toque · 11-07-2004, 06:14 PM

More on Shardik...
Shardik is one of my favourite novels. Lord Kelderek's faith in Shardik is so great that he is the only one who can enter the great bear's presence unharmed. However, like all sinful men, Kelderek soon tries to use his god, that is, Shardik, for his own means and for immoral gain. In his kingdom, Kelderek has ignored and even furthered, the slave-trading of children. This displeases Shardik and he escapes Ortega, with Kelderek following him. Kelderek ends up being kidnapped by the slave traders and learns first hand what kind of horrors he allowed to happen. In the end, the bear loses his life to save the life of the children.
Kelderek's mistake was to believe that the most important thing was to win back the city of Ortega and it's riches for his people and interpreting the will of his god incorrectly as his own. It is an example, I think, of what blind and corrupted faith can do to people.

toque · 11-07-2004, 09:13 PM

I should point out that I don't necessarily think that the story relates to the show Lost. However, it is a really great read!

I've pretty much read and quickly scanned (in some cases) the books "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" by Twain and "The Confidence Man: His Masquerade" by Melville. I'll hold back on speculating on how these books relate to the show and the character of Sawyer until after it airs, but can give you some more quick info on each book.

"Tom Sawyer" is about a "respectable" boy living on the Mississippi river. He lives with his aunt Polly and is as Alfred Kazin states in the afterward; "Tom the bad boy, the supposedly bad boy, the predictably good boy by the end of the book, is no so bad as he is impossibly romantic and even visionary. He is what he is because he read... the tries to....live up to them (the books)."
Tom is a charmer and con-artist and convinces the other boys to not only white-wash the fence (a chore his Aunt Polly gave him to do) but to pay Tom for it. Kazin states "Tom can talk people into anything because noone else really shares, much less understands, his determination to live by a book."
Tom is not a loveable or likeable character. But he is impressive in his power to convince others to live out his stories, and is charmingly irresistable.
He is also a hero by the end of the book. He has a conscience, an inate goodness, especially in relation to matters of the heart; dealing with the character of Becky, whom he loves.

"The Confidence Man" is a book about a a Mississippi steamship and a cross-section of humanity aboard it. In the beginning of the book a "lamb-like" man, mute and deaf, boards the ship and places a sign "Charity thinketh no evil", as well as other verses from Corinthians 13, next to a sign on board the ship barber has put up..."No Trust."
The lamb-like man is followed by a series of confidence men (men who swindle people by gaining their trust), and many critics believe these confidence men are actually one character, shape-shifting each time a con has been successful to find a new dupe.
The confidence man comes in different forms, trying to convince the passengers to either "Trust God", "Trust Nature, or finally, "Trust Man", and each wears the mask of faith, hope and charity, when they are the very opposite of these things. The confidence man is successful in duping everyman to the end of the book, though he meets his challenge in the character Pitch, who resists trusting man. But in the end, even Pitch succumbs and is duped. The end result is a pessimistic book that ends with the end of religion, the extinction of faith and hope, and darkness, as the confidence man extinguishes the solar lamp... :"we are being left in the dark here..." says the cosmopolitan confidence man.
The book is light in story but rich in allegory, a critcism of religion and optimistic philosophy.

Hopefully something of this relates to the upcoming show...

twobndixie · 11-07-2004, 10:45 PM

Locke is a little like that character in Shardik that can approach the "bear" or the island monster huh?

toque · 11-07-2004, 11:23 PM

I would like to apologize for all the typos in my earlier post. I was in the process of editing it and the server went down on me. Now the edit button is gone so it's too late. Sorry again.

Lucy · 11-07-2004, 11:33 PM

Toque, if "The Confidence Man" winds up being a revealing clue with this show, I'm going to rely on you to tell me about it, because frankly that book sounds too depressing to read.

Twiddler · 11-08-2004, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twiddler

Also noticed during the replay tonight that Jin was still wearing the broken cuff on one hand....Just somethin interesting to mention...

I hate to quote myself, but got somethin else to add to this...

The hand that the broken handcuff was on was, I think, the same one they focused in on in the previous episode during the flashback with Jin in the washroom trying to get rid of all the blood.

toque · 11-08-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucy

Toque, if "The Confidence Man" winds up being a revealing clue with this show, I'm going to rely on you to tell me about it, because frankly that book sounds too depressing to read.

It was somewhat depressing, but written with a lot of wit so, that helped. And, Lucy, if I think it relates somehow, you can pretty much count on hearing all about it.

ADKLove · 11-09-2004, 02:07 PM

BUMP

What is wrong with us?? Lost is on tonight and this thread is near the bottom of the page

BUMP

11-07-2004, 05:06 PM	#1162
Lucy Wonky snarkmistress Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Playing kickball for the beer Age: 33 Posts: 8,862	Thanks for the spoiler warning, Twobndixie. For those of you who frantically scrolled past it with your eyes closed, I think it's more of a theory than a spoiler. And it also fits with some theories that others have discussed in here. Quite interesting. And to do spoilers, put [spoiler], like that, in brackets, then type in what you want to hide, then put brackets, back-slash, and spoiler again. Like [/ spoiler] but without the space. __________________ It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever. -- David St. Hubbins

11-07-2004, 09:13 PM	#1164
toque FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,075	I should point out that I don't necessarily think that the story relates to the show Lost. However, it is a really great read! I've pretty much read and quickly scanned (in some cases) the books "The Adventures of Tom Sawyer" by Twain and "The Confidence Man: His Masquerade" by Melville. I'll hold back on speculating on how these books relate to the show and the character of Sawyer until after it airs, but can give you some more quick info on each book. "Tom Sawyer" is about a "respectable" boy living on the Mississippi river. He lives with his aunt Polly and is as Alfred Kazin states in the afterward; "Tom the bad boy, the supposedly bad boy, the predictably good boy by the end of the book, is no so bad as he is impossibly romantic and even visionary. He is what he is because he read... the tries to....live up to them (the books)." Tom is a charmer and con-artist and convinces the other boys to not only white-wash the fence (a chore his Aunt Polly gave him to do) but to pay Tom for it. Kazin states "Tom can talk people into anything because noone else really shares, much less understands, his determination to live by a book." Tom is not a loveable or likeable character. But he is impressive in his power to convince others to live out his stories, and is charmingly irresistable. He is also a hero by the end of the book. He has a conscience, an inate goodness, especially in relation to matters of the heart; dealing with the character of Becky, whom he loves. "The Confidence Man" is a book about a a Mississippi steamship and a cross-section of humanity aboard it. In the beginning of the book a "lamb-like" man, mute and deaf, boards the ship and places a sign "Charity thinketh no evil", as well as other verses from Corinthians 13, next to a sign on board the ship barber has put up..."No Trust." The lamb-like man is followed by a series of confidence men (men who swindle people by gaining their trust), and many critics believe these confidence men are actually one character, shape-shifting each time a con has been successful to find a new dupe. The confidence man comes in different forms, trying to convince the passengers to either "Trust God", "Trust Nature, or finally, "Trust Man", and each wears the mask of faith, hope and charity, when they are the very opposite of these things. The confidence man is successful in duping everyman to the end of the book, though he meets his challenge in the character Pitch, who resists trusting man. But in the end, even Pitch succumbs and is duped. The end result is a pessimistic book that ends with the end of religion, the extinction of faith and hope, and darkness, as the confidence man extinguishes the solar lamp... :"we are being left in the dark here..." says the cosmopolitan confidence man. The book is light in story but rich in allegory, a critcism of religion and optimistic philosophy. Hopefully something of this relates to the upcoming show... Last edited by toque; 11-07-2004 at 09:17 PM.

11-07-2004, 11:33 PM	#1167
Lucy Wonky snarkmistress Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Playing kickball for the beer Age: 33 Posts: 8,862	Toque, if "The Confidence Man" winds up being a revealing clue with this show, I'm going to rely on you to tell me about it, because frankly that book sounds too depressing to read. __________________ It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever. -- David St. Hubbins

11-09-2004, 02:07 PM	#1170
ADKLove Leave No Trace Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Seems I'm Lost. Age: 42 Posts: 2,071	BUMP What is wrong with us?? Lost is on tonight and this thread is near the bottom of the page BUMP __________________ Love many, trust a few, and always paddle your own canoe

11-07-2004, 04:48 PM	#1161
twobndixie FORT Newbie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Gone with the wind... Posts: 14	SPOILER *******!!!!! DON'T READ ANY FURTHER!!! Ok I am telling you I am going to put a SPOILER here so don't read any further. I don't know how to do that invisible thing. Over on the ABC board there is the lost game and they give you clues each week to the next week. This week there is the "Watership Down book" This book is written by Richard Adams about escaping a totalitarian society. This is the book Sawyer is reading. Now from Amazon.com some info on Adams next book Shardik was Adams's 1974 follow-up to his phenomenally popular debut, Watership Down. The title character is a gigantic bear who is the god of the primitive Ortelgan people. The hunter Kelderek becomes Shardik's greatest disciple and, eventually, ruler when the bear finally does make its return. On the surface, the book works as a fantasy adventure; on a deeper level, it explores our relationship with the divine. No matter what you want to see in it, Shardik is a good read. In the book the bear swims away to a weird island. And Sawyer killed the bear right? More info on Shardik- Shardik is a fantasy of tragic character, centered on the long-awaited reincarnation of the gigantic bear Shardik and his appearance among the half-barbaric Ortelgan people. Mighty, ferocious, and unpredictable,Shardik changes the life of every person in the story. His advent commences a momentous chain of events. Kelderek the hunter, who loves and trusts the great bear, is swept on by destiny to become first devotee and then prophet, thenvictorious soldier, then ruler of an empire and priest-king of Lord Shardik-Messenger of God-only to discover ever-deeper layers of meaning implicit in his passionate belief in the bear's divinity. So, don't know what it means but we know that the props are important!

11-07-2004, 06:14 PM	#1163
toque FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,075	More on Shardik... Shardik is one of my favourite novels. Lord Kelderek's faith in Shardik is so great that he is the only one who can enter the great bear's presence unharmed. However, like all sinful men, Kelderek soon tries to use his god, that is, Shardik, for his own means and for immoral gain. In his kingdom, Kelderek has ignored and even furthered, the slave-trading of children. This displeases Shardik and he escapes Ortega, with Kelderek following him. Kelderek ends up being kidnapped by the slave traders and learns first hand what kind of horrors he allowed to happen. In the end, the bear loses his life to save the life of the children. Kelderek's mistake was to believe that the most important thing was to win back the city of Ortega and it's riches for his people and interpreting the will of his god incorrectly as his own. It is an example, I think, of what blind and corrupted faith can do to people.

11-07-2004, 10:45 PM	#1165
twobndixie FORT Newbie Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Gone with the wind... Posts: 14	Locke is a little like that character in Shardik that can approach the "bear" or the island monster huh?

11-07-2004, 11:23 PM	#1166
toque FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 1,075	I would like to apologize for all the typos in my earlier post. I was in the process of editing it and the server went down on me. Now the edit button is gone so it's too late. Sorry again.