The View

[Margaritaville]

Much like Joy like acts when it comes to the President of the United States of America.

Except that the majority of America agrees with her opinion of Bush. As demonstrated by his approval rating of less than 30% much of the last year of so. He has given more than enough reasons to not be respected - as shown on the late night talk shows, SNL, etc.

[stacerace]

Except that the majority of America agrees with her opinion of Bush. As demonstrated by his approval rating of less than 30% much of the last year of so. He has given more than enough reasons to not be respected - as shown on the late night talk shows, SNL, etc.

Just because the majority of America agrees with Joy and disagrees with Elisabeth doesn't make Joy's opinion valid and Elisabeth's not. In fact, I actually believe that it is more even. It's just that people with Joy's point of view are more vocal. I live in Oklahoma where liberals are the minority. I myself fall in the middle and sometimes I agree with Joy and sometimes I agree with Elisabeth. Although, I really cannot STAND Joy's personality and I actually like Elisabeth even when I disagree with her. But I'm what you would consider a liberal conservative so I tend to agree with Elisabeth quite a bit. Especially when it comes to family values. Well, when I watch the show anyway. Which is rare because most of the time I have to turn it off because Joy pisses me off so much. Sometimes she is just downright offensive. I can't watch Bill Maher very long either because I think he's a total bigot and he just makes me angry.

[Bandy]

Except that the majority of America agrees with her opinion of Bush. As demonstrated by his approval rating of less than 30% much of the last year of so. He has given more than enough reasons to not be respected - as shown on the late night talk shows, SNL, etc.

So that is a reason for it to be ok? If most of America agreed with EH it would be ok? Right?

[Lil Bit]

So that is a reason for it to be ok? If most of America agreed with EH it would be ok? Right?

Maybe they are both wrong. The inevitable argument when someone points out some fault about Elisabeth is that Joy does it too. Well, that may be true, but it still doesn't excuse Elisabeth's behavior. They both have strong opinions, which happen to differ. And both are quite capable of saying bone-headed things. Just because Joy does it doesn't make it fine that Elisabeth does the same thing, or vice versa.

[Margaritaville]

Originally Posted by Margaritaville
I fail to see how WG referring to Ahmadinejad as "I'm a dinner jacket" is the same as EH referring to Deepak Chopra as "Glitter glasses". WG is making a difficult name easier to say, and EH is simply name-calling. Deepak Chopra is NOT hard to prounounce in any way. Sound it out. Seriously. They are hardly the same thing and I don't understand why they are compared as such. Elisabeth was simply being nasty about someone she doesn't agree with or respect. Now it would be an accurate comparison if she were now referred to as "two toned rats nest head".

Pugmum --
Much like Joy like acts when it comes to the President of the United States of America.

Originally Posted by Margaritaville
Except that the majority of America agrees with her opinion of Bush. As demonstrated by his approval rating of less than 30% much of the last year of so. He has given more than enough reasons to not be respected - as shown on the late night talk shows, SNL, etc.

Bandy --
So that is a reason for it to be ok? If most of America agreed with EH it would be ok? Right?

No. That wasn't my meaning at all. I was merely disagreeing that Joy commenting on the horrible job that Bush has done in the past 8 years and the decisions he has made that affect us all is not the same thing as Elisabeth being so nasty about a respected man. IMO - Bush is just not very respected at this point in time - as I previously mentioned his rather poor approval ratings show. I was only pointing out that one is not the same as the other. Joy criticizes words and actions -- Elisabeth was mocking his accessories and religious practice. Huge difference.

[Veruka]

Except that the majority of America agrees with her opinion of Bush. As demonstrated by his approval rating of less than 30% much of the last year of so. He has given more than enough reasons to not be respected - as shown on the late night talk shows, SNL, etc.

This would be a rather dangerous way to determine what can and cannot be attacked or mocked in this country legitimately, and what is hands off. If you look across the country over the past 10 years, most ballot initiatives pertaining to gay rights have been voted down. This would indicate that the majority of Americans are against gay rights. So does that mean that those fighting for gay rights deserve to be disrespected?

I do not make this point to get this thread off track into the merits of gay rights votes. Rather, I'm using an extreme to illustrate why justifying behavior based on majority opinion does not work. Quite frankly, i don't have a problem with Joy mocking Bush, and I don't have a problem with Elisabeth mocking Chopra. Its each of their jobs to argue their points of view in a passionate and entertaining way. And given that both Bush and Chopra are public figures who willingly put their ideas out there in a firm and decisive way, they're both left wide open to criticism and being mocked. The right and wrong to me comes in expressing opinions -- it makes no sense to me to make a distinction of "if most people agree, you're okay, if most people don't agree, you can't say it". Although I'd point out I'm not aware of any approval polls about Chopra. So even if I did accept the majority rules rule for mockery, I'm not sure we could assume that Chopra was hands off.

[Margaritaville]

Veruka - you completely disregarded my point. I spelled it out in my last post.

Joy criticizes words and actions -- Elisabeth was mocking his accessories and religious practice. Huge difference.

I didn't feel as though I had articulated it well the first time around, so I tried to be more clear. Joy mocks the actions of Bush - Elisabeth was completely disrespectful of a man by attacking his eyewear and a religious ceremony without even explaining what her issue with him was. It was completely random, not to mention off topic - and the panel was lost as well. If you are still not sure of my point, go back and read my previous post (5685). I was pretty specific and I also included "In my opinion".

This would be a rather dangerous way to determine what can and cannot be attacked or mocked in this country legitimately, and what is hands off. If you look across the country over the past 10 years, most ballot initiatives pertaining to gay rights have been voted down. This would indicate that the majority of Americans are against gay rights. So does that mean that those fighting for gay rights deserve to be disrespected?

Not quite. If I were to use your example here -- Elisabeth would have to take issue with Deepak Chopra's beliefs and issues instead of his eyewear. That is the issue.

[PugMum]

IMO, when EH said "go light a bowl of incense" after Deepak Chopra name has nothing to do with his religious beliefs. He is a new age doctor. He SELLS incense on his web page. He has been rather vocal and has made some rather vile statements about Gov. Palin and others.
So the incense comment was more of a practice what he preaches and to calm down with his own product.
I heard BOTH Joy AND Elisabeth voice their VIEW about two different people. (although EH was cut off from completing her sentence.) Just because you (generalized) don't agree with with one of them does not make THEIR view wrong anymore then yours is wrong.

[Bunny555]

And given that both Bush and Chopra are public figures who willingly put their ideas out there in a firm and decisive way, they're both left wide open to criticism and being mocked.

There's a huge difference there. Deepak Chopra's opinions are just that...opinions. George Bush's "opinions" have a tad more far-reaching consequences. Can Elisabeth mock Chopra? Of course she can but it's not quite the same as Joy questioning a man who's opinions and abuse of power effect everyone.

[Veruka]

Veruka - you completely disregarded my point. I spelled it out in my last post.



I didn't feel as though I had articulated it well the first time around, so I tried to be more clear. Joy mocks the actions of Bush - Elisabeth was completely disrespectful of a man by attacking his eyewear and a religious ceremony without even explaining what her issue with him was. It was completely random, not to mention off topic - and the panel was lost as well. If you are still not sure of my point, go back and read my previous post (5685). I was pretty specific and I also included "In my opinion".

I got your point, but I disagree with it on both counts. I've seen Joy mock Bush (and other conservatives) on grounds other than words and actions ... unless you consider "he's a conservative, so his weight / appearance / etc can be mocked" to be based on words and actions, which I don't. And while Elisabeth may not have explained where she was coming from well, she did explain where she was coming from. She did not merely make the glasses / incense remarks. She also talked about Chopra - in her view - blaming US actions for the attacks in Mumbai.

There's a huge difference there. Deepak Chopra's opinions are just that...opinions. George Bush's "opinions" have a tad more far-reaching consequences. Can Elisabeth mock Chopra? Of course she can but it's not quite the same as Joy questioning a man who's opinions and abuse of power effect everyone.

Now if that were the standard, then Elisabeth's opinions have perhaps even less reaching consequence than Chopra. So does that mean she should not be mocked around here? I'd say certainly not!