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Thread: The View

  1. #3921
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by dagwood;2846737;
    Not always. I am in the boat that I make too much to qualify for state aid but can't afford company insurance because it is way too expensive. Like I said up thread, my share of the policy would be $400 a month for just me and my child. That doesn't count what my boss pays of it. Even without insurance, I don't pay $4800 a year in going to the doctor, etc. The cost of insurance is ridiculous. There is no way I can pay that and still afford to put a roof over our heads and food in our cupboards. I don't smoke, I drink my coffee at home. There isn't any place I could cut back. Believe it or not, there are alot of people in the same boat I am in.
    When my husband was in college we were in the same boat. We made $2,000 a year OVER the "proverty" line. I was able to get our son healthcare insurance through his public school. It wasn't the greatest but at least HE was insured.

  2. #3922
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by dagwood;2846737;
    Believe it or not, there are alot of people in the same boat I am in.
    I'm in that boat with you, dags. My student loan payments are $600/month. I live in the cheapest apartment I could find in a safe neighborhood. I take my lunch to work, I don't smoke OR drink coffee and I struggle every month. Sometimes, it has nothing to do with being wasteful or bad at budgeting. Sometimes there IS no money for insurance. There are plenty of us out here who don't qualify for aid and can't afford to pay for insurance through our employers.

    Elizabeth making statements like that is the same as when Oprah talks about how money doesn't matter. When you're so far removed from regular working-class people, you have no place making statements like that, IMO. It comes off as both sanctimonious and naive.
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  3. #3923
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by PWS;2846765;
    dagwood! Read the papers, Elisabeth fans...there are a lot of uninsured people out there...meaning they make too much for free insurance but can't/don't pay for it themselves. And I see no reason to think they are all smokers and latte drinkers.... I admit, some of them might be the kinds of idiots who could afford it but think "it won't happen to me"--the same people who don't wear seatbelts or motorcycle helmets....but surely not most of them, especially those with children.
    can't and don't are two TOTALLY different things. My coworker does not have healthcare for herself OR her 7 year old daughter. She REFUSES to pay the $80 a month for the coverage. She is a single mother that is always seen with a coffee cup in her hand and carries a LV purse.

  4. #3924
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by PugMum;2846767;
    When my husband was in college we were in the same boat. We made $2,000 a year OVER the "proverty" line. I was able to get our son healthcare insurance through his public school. It wasn't the greatest but at least HE was insured.
    I was turned down, they say I make too much money. Just because your coworker refuses to pay for insurance doesn't mean we all do. Trust me, I would love to have an $80 a month premium. Then I could afford insurance. Don't judge us all by the actions of a few.

    I'm not going to fight this anymore. It is apparent you won't believe me. I know my situation and I know that I am not putting non-important things ahead of my childs welfare. That is all that matters.
    He who laughs last thinks slowest

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  5. #3925
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by dagwood;2846779;
    I was turned down, they say I make too much money. Just because your coworker refuses to pay for insurance doesn't mean we all do. Trust me, I would love to have an $80 a month premium. Then I could afford insurance. Don't judge us all by the actions of a few.

    I'm not going to fight this anymore. It is apparent you won't believe me. I know my situation and I know that I am not putting non-important things ahead of my childs welfare. That is all that matters.
    I do not doubt you at all. I do understand what you are saying. And I would NEVER judge what I do not know.
    I just don't like that so many REALLY REALLY REALLY DISLIKE/CANNOT STAND and YES even "H-8" Elisabeth because she says there are people that DO put their wants before their needs. Sadly she is speaking the truth with that.

  6. #3926
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    Re: The View

    No one, including Elisabeth, said that all who have uninsured children are neglecting them or not doing their best to provide them a good life. But, sadly, there are some who do fall into that category. It does not make Elisabeth uncaring to question where the parents are of these children. It is a smart question.

  7. #3927
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    Re: The View

    I guess to me it is throwing out the baby with the bathwater to say that because there are some who choose not to use their money on healthcare we won't give it to anyone. Maybe it has to do with the % we think fall into each category. I think most of the people w/o healthcare are like dagwood, while Elisabeth thinks they are mostly like PugMum's coworker. Or maybe Elisabeth wouldn't give it to anyone if she couldn't be assured that there were NO "won'ts" in the group, only "can'ts" . From what she's said do you think she would be opposed to giving it to "can'ts" if she were sure there were no "won'ts" in the group? From the quotes so far she comes across as believing there are no "can'ts", just "won'ts".
    And while we argue this, note that pretty much the rest of the first world thinks healthcare is a right...only the US thinks it is a privilege. Sigh. But that's a fight for another forum, this is just a discussion of Elisabeth's views and trying to find out what they are.

  8. #3928
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by SavhLaney;2847019;
    No one, including Elisabeth, said that all who have uninsured children are neglecting them or not doing their best to provide them a good life. But, sadly, there are some who do fall into that category. It does not make Elisabeth uncaring to question where the parents are of these children. It is a smart question.
    I think it's ignorant of her that her first assumption is that parents can afford health care for their children and choose not to. Since she is so pro family, why doesn't she use her voice to find a solution for families who fall by the wayside and may have to choose between keeping a roof over their heads and paying for healthcare. Wake up Elisabeth......the world outside of your sheltered bubble can be a cold hard place and shame on you for condeming someone who'se shoes you have not walked in.
    CYA

  9. #3929
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    Re: The View

    I did not hear Elisabeth condemn anyone. In fact, as usual, she did not get to finish sharing her "view" on the subject. IIRC, she was interrupted.

    I do not think she lives in a sheltered bubble either.

  10. #3930
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by PWS;2846765;
    dagwood! Read the papers, Elisabeth fans...there are a lot of uninsured people out there...meaning they make too much for free insurance but can't/don't pay for it themselves. And I see no reason to think they are all smokers and latte drinkers.... I admit, some of them might be the kinds of idiots who could afford it but think "it won't happen to me"--the same people who don't wear seatbelts or motorcycle helmets....but surely not most of them, especially those with children.
    The number of people who are in that boat is often times exaggerated significantly, because the statistics count people who can afford insurance, but choose not to buy it. It may seem illogical, but the number of 20-something professionals who figure they're young, they're healthy, and they can spend that money each month on lattes and dinners out with friends is rather high. Admittedly, that number does not count for a lot of families struggling to provide healthcare for their kids. But it is counted in the "how do we deal with this" number, making the estimated cost of dealing with it much much higher. Instinct says that number needs to be higher to convince people that the government needs to do something. But i think the truth is that if we look at the number in a realistic manner, it would be low enough to convince people that the system COULD do something.

    It doesn't have to be an either/or proposition. The government does not have to be the only source of the solution. People who look at other solutions are not necessarily heartless or child haters. And all Elisabeth "fans" don't necessarily think like she does.

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