The View

[phoenix1964]

Side point, I watched this historical documentation on drugs- how it manifested itself in societies. Interesting comment made by a historian is alcohol was first distilled by Europeans-vodka, scotch, etc fueled agression where as people in Africa and Latin America from the incas to Epytians favored drugs such as marijuana and alot of indigenous plants that fueled more introspection.

But I don't think our society would change radically if blacks and women iwere in charge because our culture and institutions and beliefs are so ingrained. Actually, too divergent thoughts are squashed and candidates have to bend to our expectations of them. For instance, France doesn't care who their President is sleeping with but for Purtain rooted reasons we as Americans need to see a seemingly happilly married President.

But it would be interesting to ponder if maybe Mary Madegline was accept as an equal with the other apostles- how would Christainity developed.

Or if John Adams listened to his wife Abagail's ideas and ideals about the status of women of women in America and included them in the Constitution. Maybe,seeing a women as an equal would negate the idea that women were property and the rampant sexual and physical abuse woman have sufferred would not occur.

Or maybe, listening to blacks about their equality and including it in the constitution would have averted the civil war and the racial tension that has been woven into the american fabric ever since.

But white men are not responsible for no peace. We all are.

[sports_chica]

Agreed

[Veruka]

Again, you're executing another fallacy of composition here, Veruka.

Rosie wasn't looking for Elisabeth's agreement... she was looking for her to acknowledge that Rosie didn't make the statement that FoxNews was trying to present. So the fact that neither Rush Limbaugh nor Ann Coulter look to others for approval is irrelevant, as neither did Rosie.

And, once again, Rosie isn't ending her contract three weeks early because Elisabeth didn't agree with her (because again, she wasn't asking for Elisabeth's agreement.) She's openly indicated why she isn't coming back, but apparently it makes for more bashing fodder to continue to take the incorrect road.

But all the names you listed have been misquoted from time to time. When they are, they defend themselves. They don't look to others to acknowledge what they did or did not say. The role that Elisabeth was to play in Rosie's mind can take on any word you wish for it to take -- approval, defense, back-up -- it doesn't matter. The key here is that Rosie was looking for Elisabeth to be involved. She wanted her to play an active role. THAT is the key distinction between Rosie and the names you listed. The names you listed face criticism by taking it on themselves. They do not put blame for their hardships, whether that comes in the form of someone else getting involved in making statements about the criticism, the way that their producers shoot their shows, or any other factor on other people. They accept the responsibility for taking care of themselves. It is a mistake to get wrapped up in the minute details here to try to pretend that Rosie is the same as the people you listed. She's not -- when the heat in the kitchen gets too hot, she reacts negatively, while they stand up and take it, and are ready to take some more.

[prhoshay]

I can hardly wait to see who gets the last word in this back-and-forth!!!

[barefootdyke]

yeah, tomorrow's show should be interesting. i wonder what barbara's going to say this time.

[PugMum]

yeah, tomorrow's show should be interesting. i wonder what barbara's going to say this time.

She will start by saying how Rosie really does walk on water and then she will break out singing "Kumbaya my RO, kumbaya"
All this while she is giving Elisabeth the EVIL EYE

[JunkieGirl]

Some general comments.....

I'm enjoying the debate between Veruka and Broadway. Very intelligent, worded well and most of all respectful to each other. I have to admit that I have learned a lot from the both of you over the last year or so... I have had a lesson in world politics and issues that I was never interested in before.....so thank you for expanding my world. (Who would have thunk it~~a reality TV website???)

While I relate to Rosie on some issues, I think I am more liberal than some...(yep I can be conservative on some issues) I just cannot stand the way Ro presents her arguments. C'mon Rosie~~you are older than EH, so you should have learned by now that you don't put people on the defensive if you want them to LISTEN to your point of view. Rosie seems to want to change EH's views, rather than educate or point out a different viewpoint. It doesn't work that way, as I find out with my pre-teen son almost EVERY single day. It has taken me a few years to realize our communication style~~as it changed daily. *SIGH* Talking to him about condoms and protecting himself....uh yeah.... He doesn't want me to be so blunt and open, but to be less blatant about so called 'subjects'. OK so this is how I approach these topics. And geez, do I have to bite my tongue!! If only Rosie could have learned "HOW" to communicate with Eliz. Maybe they wouldn't have had the problems they have now.

EH should have never have to be Rosie's "defender". Friends or not, they are first considered colleagues. Isn't that kind of fraternizing frowned upon for this very reason? Rosie should be able to defend herself, she is a grown up after all.

If Rosie was looking for a "defender" why was she looking for it from someone she claimed that couldn't 'hold two concepts?"

Now I am more convinced that Rosie was fired. If ABC thought she was such a ratings grabber then why would they let her go without a fight? She signed a contract, she should have been obligated to fulfill it. Sure leaves a lot of questions........

One last thought.....if this brings out more DT quips, then I will curse Rosie even more!!

[Bandy]

The whole thing that troubles me is Rosie really seems to be a pot stirrer. I know I know free speech blah blah, people should still be expected to take accountability for what they say.
Rosie directed her question about the media twisting her words to Elisabeth. She did not direct them to Joy or anyone else. Then she asks a question and runs over her when she wants to answer in the way she wants to answer. Fox wasn't the only news to think she implied that the US forces are terrorists so why direct the question to Elisabeth? She wanted and argument and it is obvious that numerous people misinterpreted the comment and if she would have just SHUT UP for one moment Elisabeth might have given her a good answer while at the same time clearing up Rosies intent with the comment.

Instead Rosie wants a Yes or no answer like Elisabeth was on trial. There was no judge and Elisabeth should have been given some common courtsey to answer her own way. Rosie after the show should have asked Elisabeth about it and been done with it before Wed. If Rosie were to look back she would see that time and time again she says rude things to Elisabeth that are personal like she shouldn't blather etc. Poor little Elisabeth obviously had enough and let it fly.

Rosie doesn't direct her questions to the others or attack them personally because they mostly agree with her. She directs them to the one who disagrees with her and does it in a provocative manner then when she gets a dose of her own she is astounded and thinks she is betrayed by a friend.

If they are really friends then she would see her part in it and they would have come back on air and made nice. It sounds like from Rosies blog that Elisabeth did call and tried to talk with Rosie but she wouldn't have it. Rosie is a loose cannon and on the view she aimed it at ding dong Elisabeth who took it for a long time. Rosie wants to spout and spout but have no accountability for what she says. But as Elisabeth said they are her words and her thoughts and she should clarify them or shut up when people are offended by her.
I don't think Elisabeth will be smug at all. I would imagine she is very upset about it all and in hindsight regrets a lot of it. She made the call to Rosie and I would doubt that she wanted her to leave early. I don't think Elisabeth is given enough credit. She was raised a Democrat and she made a choice to be a conservative Republican I am guessing from her own investigating. She didn't just blindly accept everything that was told to her.

Why do people think Rosie and Joy are so much more credible than Elisabeth is funny. They are both comedians. Elisabeth was on survivor. So we have two clowns and a reality tv contestant. I know Elisabeth at least graduated from college not sure about Joy or Rosie. Star at least was an attorney with a DA record, Meredith was a seasoned Journalist, Lisa Ling was a journalist and moved on to be a very credible one. For people to keep saying Elisabeth is a no one so are basically Joy and Rosie, both only became known for being funny. Rosie has a wake of destruction in her path. Joy never heard of her before this and I never find her humor funny it is always predictable and crass.

I never thought this show was supposed to be about professionals in politics anyway. I thought it was supposed to be about women from all walks of life talking about common things and the different view points. When it comes to a lot of other topics Elisabeth has a lot better ideas and things to say than the others. I hate to hear her spout her political views but at least she doesn't go off on conspiracy theories or at the very least she doesn't start the fights with lists of things she loves about the administration.
I am happy that rosie is gone and I hope she figures out that fire can in fact melt steel just ask the welders, the black smiths or at the very least those elves from Lord of the rings who made all those swords.

[Veruka]

Joy has both a bachelors and masters degree. She was a teacher before she got into comedy.

[Bandy]

Well that is good to know she should use those skills more often and leave the humor to others. I know a lot of people find her funny I never have not even once. I always think well duh when she says a joke or a reply it seems like somehthing most people are thinking.