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Thread: The View

  1. #2011
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2418722;
    I recognize that in some ways, this is a semantical thing, but, in this statement, it seems rather clear to me that Rosie is saying that in the eyes of Iraqi civilians, the United States and the people who invaded their country are terrorists. Elisabeth is right that she never answered her own question, but the way she said it up, is she leaving room for another answer? If she's not - if she asked who the terrorists were, then went on to explain why in the eyes of Iraqis, the US are the terrorists, then I don't think its off-base to say that Rosie has called the troops terrorists. Is that the meaning she intended? I don't think so. But I can't say that it's a meaning she was trying to avoid either. It was a horribly, horribly sloppy use of words, and I think she is very off-base to throw that out there, refuse to clarify it, and then try to blame others for standing up for her. I don't blame Elisabeth for recognizing that it wasn't a simple yes or no answer. In fact, I think that her recognizing that indicates that she may be smarter than I've given her credit for.



    I gave a list of outspoken men with loud voices and strong opinions who are seen negatively (arguably more so than Rosie, Hillary, etc). What men who express strong opinions with loud voices aren't seen negatively?
    Men are not seen AS negatively as the women. It is a double standard.

    And I think what Rosie was trying to say is that if you were to ask an Iraqi civilian, they would say that the US is the terrorist in THEIR country. We don't see it that way and I do support our troops, so don't get on me about that. But when 9/11 happened, we saw the hijackers as terrorists attacking OUR country. But when the shoe is on the other foot, what do the Iraqi people see? I think it depends on which country you are from on how you see it. We'll NEVER understand it because it is NOT happening here so its not our country being blown up. There has not been a war fought on US mainland soil in over 140 years. But if 100,000 troops invaded say Maryland, then you can bet the entire country would be outraged at us being attacked.
    It's a war. There are 2 sides or there wouldn't be a war. If were all on the same side, then this wouldn't be happening.
    Germany saw us as the enemy in WWII and they firmly believed we were. Were they wrong. Well we think so and so does the world now, but at the time, the Germans thought they were right, we thought we were right and its the same thing right now. Both sides think they are right and both sides see the other side as the enemy and that is the point I think that Rosie was trying to point out in her not so elegant way. To the Iraqis, we are terrorists. To the US, the Iraqis are. I hate to use the word terrorists as it conjurs up so much more than the use of the word "enemy", but basically you don't fight wars with your friends. So each side may have what they think are valid points of view on who's right and who's wrong and unfortunately its history that we look back on to see just who was right. But remember the victors always right the history books.
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  2. #2012
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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by myrosiedog;2418739;
    Men are not seen AS negatively as the women. It is a double standard.
    I guess I've seen death wished on Cheney, Limbaugh, Moore, and Sharpton more often than I have on Hillary or Rosie. I'll agree to disagree on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by myrosiedog;2418739;
    And I think what Rosie was trying to say is that if you were to ask an Iraqi civilian, they would say that the US is the terrorist in THEIR country. We don't see it that way and I do support our troops, so don't get on me about that. But when 9/11 happened, we saw the hijackers as terrorists attacking OUR country. But when the shoe is on the other foot, what do the Iraqi people see? I think it depends on which country you are from on how you see it. We'll NEVER understand it because it is NOT happening here so its not our country being blown up. There has not been a war fought on US mainland soil in over 140 years. But if 100,000 troops invaded say Maryland, then you can bet the entire country would be outraged at us being attacked.
    It's a war. There are 2 sides or there wouldn't be a war. If were all on the same side, then this wouldn't be happening.
    Germany saw us as the enemy in WWII and they firmly believed we were. Were they wrong. Well we think so and so does the world now, but at the time, the Germans thought they were right, we thought we were right and its the same thing right now. Both sides think they are right and both sides see the other side as the enemy and that is the point I think that Rosie was trying to point out in her not so elegant way. To the Iraqis, we are terrorists. To the US, the Iraqis are. I hate to use the word terrorists as it conjurs up so much more than the use of the word "enemy", but basically you don't fight wars with your friends. So each side may have what they think are valid points of view on who's right and who's wrong and unfortunately its history that we look back on to see just who was right. But remember the victors always right the history books.
    I think that you've summed up what Rosie said well, and I agree with it. But what Rosie objected to was not people saying that Rosie thought our troops were terrorists ... they said that she'd called the troops terrorists. Yes, that's a statement which can be misunderstood without more information (just as Rosie's was left wide open for misunderstanding given the sloppieness of her words). But if the question is "Did Rosie call the troops terrorists?" is a very different question from "Does Rosie think the troops are terrorists?" I believe that when the question is posed as "Did Rosie call the troops terrorists?" the answer has to be yes.

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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2418750;
    I guess I've seen death wished on Cheney, Limbaugh, Moore, and Sharpton more often than I have on Hillary or Rosie. I'll agree to disagree on that one.


    I think that you've summed up what Rosie said well, and I agree with it. But what Rosie objected to was not people saying that Rosie thought our troops were terrorists ... they said that she'd called the troops terrorists. Yes, that's a statement which can be misunderstood without more information (just as Rosie's was left wide open for misunderstanding given the sloppieness of her words). But if the question is "Did Rosie call the troops terrorists?" is a very different question from "Does Rosie think the troops are terrorists?" I believe that when the question is posed as "Did Rosie call the troops terrorists?" the answer has to be yes.
    Yes, I have seen negative publicity heaped on those men, but I still think its a double standard when it comes to women. Always has been and unfortunately still is. Because there are still a LOT more men out there with political views and platforms to air those views that do not get attacked. Just because you can name 4 men, there are at least 30 others that don't get hit with the big loudmouth award like some women do.
    So yes, we'll agree to disagree.

    And yes Rosie did unfortunately call the troops terrorists. Did she mean it that way? No, she unfortunately had a poor choice of words that she did get crucified on. However, I don't think anyone watching the entire segment would have thought so, but if you saw just the one soundbite it does look like she calls our troops terrorists. Again, poor choice of wording when she didn't mean it that way at all. And she tried to clarify it and she hoped that her friends would back her up on it and EH did not.
    This is a case of open mouth, insert foot and regrets followed because what she said wasn't what she meant.

    And we've ALL done that (I know I have and felt awful for mispeaking), but most of us don't do it on national tv where it can be replayed a million times and be criticized by anyone with a tv or radio show or computer.
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    Re: The View

    I'm not sure that I could go as far as saying that EH didn't back her up -- Rosie would not give her the chance to back her up. She posed a question, Elisabeth started to answer it, and before she could get 3 words in, Rosie cut her off and demanded that it be a yes or no answer. If Elisabeth had answered it yes or no, the answer would have had to be "yes" because she did call the troops terrorists. So in the demands that she was making, Rosie blocked Elisabeth from being able to back her up.

    Further, I think that is one point Elisabeth made that is dead on correct -- Rosie needs to back up her own words, and not rely exclusively on friends to do it for her.

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    Re: The View

    The attitude toward men seems to be how stupid or wrong they are. Toward women it often is who does she think she is to say that, or do that.

    I do agree that one of Rosie's problems is the use of sloppy words that leave her open to misinterpretation. Too much emotionalism and shouting over each other leads to that. The question shuld have been: Can you understand that to the Iraqis we are the agressors?

    There is still a lot of confusion between the war on Iraq and the attack on 9/11. People who believe it was wrong to go to war in Iraq are so sften accused of being pro terrorist.

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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by North OC Mom;2418831;
    The attitude toward men seems to be how stupid or wrong they are. Toward women it often is who does she think she is to say that, or do that.

    I do agree that one of Rosie's problems is the use of sloppy words that leave her open to misinterpretation. Too much emotionalism and shouting over each other leads to that. The question shuld have been: Can you understand that to the Iraqis we are the agressors?
    There is still a lot of confusion between the war on Iraq and the attack on 9/11. People who believe it was wrong to go to war in Iraq are so sften accused of being pro terrorist.
    I think you hit it exactly on all points and so did Veruka in her above post.

    Rosie needs to defend herself, but I can see why you would want your friends to back you up, but then she didn't give EH the chance to do that either. At that point, it was just a big huge fight and I don't think anything said would have pleased anyone involved.

    It was a sad misuse of words that unfortunately deteriorated into a personal dispute that sadly was played out before the world instead of in private.
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    Re: The View

    Rosie gave Elisabeth ample time to back her up on Monday's show but Elisabeth did not. By Wednesday's show no, Rosie didn't give her that opportunity at all. By that time, however, it was too little, too late. Damage was done.
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    Re: The View

    Why didn't Rosie use that time on Monday to back herself up instead of wondering why Elisabeth wasn't (by insulting her for the shows she watches)?

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    Re: The View

    The question posed to Elisabeth was pretty clear.
    "Do you think that I think our troops are terrorists?

    Elisabeth chose to ignore that question, which I suppose is her right, and instead turn the focus onto the original statement.
    That's not what Rosie was asking her.
    She wasn't asking whether her comment was ambiguous, open to interpretation or potentially damaging, it was very simple, 'what do you think?'

    I strongly doubt that Elisabeth thinks Rosie thinks the troops are terrorists, even if her comment might have lead people to spin it that way.
    She wouldn't answer her, even to say "no I don't, but I can see why people might after the comment you made."
    She argues that it's not her job to defend Rosie, but I also don't think it's her job to give Rosie time and opportunity to clarify her arguments either.


    I think because Rosie is leaving Babs will think the situation will just diffuse itself and it likely will, until the next time someone is critical of this administration and off Elisabeth will go again.
    It wasn't the fight with Rosie that got Elisabeth riled.
    She was already there when Joy started reading her list.
    She needs to get a sense of perspective and sense of humour, fast.

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    Re: The View

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2418867;
    Why didn't Rosie use that time on Monday to back herself up instead of wondering why Elisabeth wasn't (by insulting her for the shows she watches)?
    Exactly! Rosie was given an opportunity to back up her own statement and explain her words but she didn't do it. And then Wednesday when Rosie asked EH "Do you think I think our troops are terrorists", she wouldn't even let EH answer. (Probably because she knew it wouldn't the answer she wanted to hear.)
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