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  1. #1511
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    I can't stand the stammering, either. How embarrassing when people feel the need to help you finish your sentences.
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

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  2. #1512
    Yoffy lifts a finger... fluff's Avatar
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    Things got a little tense between Rosie and Elisabeth this morning.
    They were interviewing the woman who made the documentary 'The Ghosts of Abu Ghirab'.
    Elisabeth seemed unable to accept (imo) that the woman concluded through her own experiences talking to perpetrators and victims, that torture is not as effective a tool as relationship building when it comes to interrogating suspects.
    She also answered the concern that Elisabeth had that there isn't always time to build relationships, saying that the "ticking time bomb" theory doesn't really hold up outside of tv drama.
    Interrogators generally aren't up against a clock, needing to find out information before the hour is up as on 24 for example.


    Although she hasn't come right out and said it, I get the impression Elisabeth doesn't realy make much room for the possibility that torture could illicit false confession.

    At one point Rosie told Elisabeth she needed to stop because the guest was explaining her findings and Elisabeth appeared to be trying to refute them.
    Elisabeth may well have her facts right (I doubt it considering where she gets her news from) but it seemed to me as though she was trying to directly argue against what the filmaker was reporting as having uncovered via her research.

    The interview spanned two segments of the show and was very interesting.
    It's hard to fully explain everything that went on in detail because there was a lot of information and as usual voices were coming from all angles.

    If you get the chance to watch it I'd recommend doing so.
    I imagine there will be coverage of the comments Rosie made on the entertainment magazine shows tonight because she told Elisabeth to stop babbling on.

  3. #1513
    FORT Fogey
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluff;2288102;

    At one point Rosie told Elisabeth she needed to stop because the guest was explaining her findings and Elisabeth appeared to be trying to refute them..
    I wonder if Rosie, and Joy, are going to apply that same rule to themselves the next time a guest like Dennis Miller is on ...
    Quote Originally Posted by fluff;2288102;
    Elisabeth may well have her facts right (I doubt it considering where she gets her news from) but it seemed to me as though she was trying to directly argue against what the filmaker was reporting as having uncovered via her research.
    As long as that's done in a respectful, fact base manner, I'm not sure that it is a bad thing. There are countless examples of documentaries where facts are researched, but all of the facts are not necessarily presented (or uncovered). Just because a documentary is fact-based doesn't mean that it can't, or should not be refuted. Nor does making a documentary automatically make a person an expert on a given subject. Filmmakers can come into their projects with their own biases, and desired messages to be communicated. They have to be taken for what they are. Even quality work doesn't achieve an unchallengable status.

  4. #1514
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    I came in in the middle of Rosie reprimanding Elisabeth (she said something about they didn't have time for Elisabeth's blathering on and on***and I knew I had missed something ). I'm hoping to see a clip of it somewhere else later.

    If these women would be determined to use some self-control and speak, one at a time (and I know they could do it if they wanted to), we'd all be much happier viewers.

    If anyone sees a repeat of the segment later on...be sure to come in here and let us know where to look!
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

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  5. #1515
    Yoffy lifts a finger... fluff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2288113;
    As long as that's done in a respectful, fact base manner, I'm not sure that it is a bad thing. There are countless examples of documentaries where facts are researched, but all of the facts are not necessarily presented (or uncovered). Just because a documentary is fact-based doesn't mean that it can't, or should not be refuted. Nor does making a documentary automatically make a person an expert on a given subject. Filmmakers can come into their projects with their own biases, and desired messages to be communicated. They have to be taken for what they are. Even quality work doesn't achieve an unchallengable status.
    I'm well aware of all that.

    At the very least the material is subject to the interpretation of the filmmaker who may him/herself be enterting into the project with a certain agenda.
    Having watched the show, my own interpretation is that the filmaker in this case sought to tell the story that her research revealed, not to make her research reveal the story she wanted to tell.
    Just my opinion.
    Also my opinion that Elisabeth is in no position to attempt to refute the claims in this movie.
    Supporting an alternate view point certainly doesn't make her or anyone else an expert either, no matter how many shows she may have watched that support and helped form her opinion.

  6. #1516
    Hook 'em Horns! muggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;2288113;
    I wonder if Rosie, and Joy, are going to apply that same rule to themselves the next time a guest like Dennis Miller is on ...

    As long as that's done in a respectful, fact base manner, I'm not sure that it is a bad thing. There are countless examples of documentaries where facts are researched, but all of the facts are not necessarily presented (or uncovered). Just because a documentary is fact-based doesn't mean that it can't, or should not be refuted. Nor does making a documentary automatically make a person an expert on a given subject. Filmmakers can come into their projects with their own biases, and desired messages to be communicated. They have to be taken for what they are. Even quality work doesn't achieve an unchallengable status.
    What aggravated me about that interchange was Rosie interrupted Elizabeth's only legit question at the end of a rant -- something along the lines of "what else works besides torture?" She asks this regularly on this discussion, and no one informed enough is ever there to answer it. It was unfortunate that the interruption by Rosie erased the opportunity for this woman to say something relevant on that question. Elizabeth's argument regularly is that torture is the only effective means, which is simply not true (wikipedia can even give you better info).

    Elizabeth was clearly repeating her Fox pre-programmed rhetoric to refute this woman's findings, though. And she was being long-winded. Whether or not this woman's findings were the truth, unless Elizabeth can offer an incite from personal experience or something she's learned outside of the Fox brainwashing, it was correct for Rosie to tell her to stop ranting. This is not the O'Reilly Factor where new/factual information is immediately refuted by the Bush agenda.

    The last time Dennis Miller was on The View, he was allowed to talk unfettered, unquestioned and without interruption. Did you miss this episode?
    Last edited by muggle; 03-20-2007 at 12:45 PM.
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  7. #1517
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    I guess that I'm just a little skeptical of the filmmaker's approach, in believing that she approached the subject with an open mind, given her uncle's well-stated views on the issue. As I say that, I am fully aware that there is not a single, "must be adhered to by all" viewpoint that must be expressed by every member of the Kennedy family. But just as I'd be skeptical if Lauren Bush were to make a film about post-Taliban Afghanistan in believing that she'd truly take on the administration if she uncovered information that gave her reason to, I'm skeptical of just how open minded a Kennedy would approach a project like this.

  8. #1518
    FORT Fogey Muduh's Avatar
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    I will never, ever understand why anyone thinks it's Rosie's place to reprimand Elisabeth or anyone else on the show. And for her to tell a co host to stop blathering on is in my opnion, the rudest thing I've seen on that show. My dislike for Rosie grows daily. If someone doesn't settle her down, we are once again going to have The Rosie Show with only her on the stage.

  9. #1519
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    Quote Originally Posted by fluff;2288102;
    Elisabeth seemed unable to accept (imo) that the woman concluded through her own experiences talking to perpetrators and victims, that torture is not as effective a tool as relationship building when it comes to interrogating suspects.

    Although she hasn't come right out and said it, I get the impression Elisabeth doesn't realy make much room for the possibility that torture could illicit false confession.
    Of course not. After all, if Fox news states otherwise you know everyone else is lying. And if it, even the slightest bit, implies that Bush & company aren't perfect you know it's got to be wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by Muduh;
    I will never, ever understand why anyone thinks it's Rosie's place to reprimand Elisabeth or anyone else on the show.
    Isn't that part of her job? She took over the moderator position that Meredith had which was to keep the show on topic and moving along. Which would make it her place to tell any one of her co-hosts to shove it. I've even seen her nudge Barbara to stay on topic, which I absolutely loved

  10. #1520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muduh;2288277;
    I will never, ever understand why anyone thinks it's Rosie's place to reprimand Elisabeth or anyone else on the show. And for her to tell a co host to stop blathering on is in my opnion, the rudest thing I've seen on that show. My dislike for Rosie grows daily. If someone doesn't settle her down, we are once again going to have The Rosie Show with only her on the stage.
    agrees 100%

    i watched the little exchange and just shook my head, Rosie might as well should have said "Shut Up! Elisabeth, we don't wan't to hear anything from YOU, unless of course your saying what i'm saying" Rosie also has the habit of talking to Elisabeth like she is one of her adopted kids. She told her how she's seen the documentary twice saying exactly what. Elisabeth continues to get disrespected on the show, these ladies don't even have the common decency to just agree to disagree on topics. Isn't the show called "The View". Elisabeth tries hard to kiss Rosie's ass and it hasn't helped her one bit because she has an R behind her name.

    i didn't see anything wrong with what Elisabeth was saying and she did ask her question... but because her question apposed Rosie's belief on torture and whatnot, she tried to make it seem like Elisabeth was on there filibustering the Kennedy lady.

    this show is disgusting, last week there was a show on (don't know what it was about) the volume was off and i just looked at the body language... all i seen was eye rolling and stupid looks anytime Elisabeths mouth was moving, and this seems to be the common theme.




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